Completely Confused about Cub Scout Cabin Camping

[Shilue]

Forget the cabins all together and do tent camping. Problem solved.

 

Tiger Cubs are eligible to go camping, and they will need a Tiger Partner. Doesn't have to be the same person that's with them at everything else, they just need A adult partner.

[83Eagle]

It's in winter.

[Shilue]

> It's in winter.

 

And?

 

Nothing wrong with tent camping in the winter. Our pack camps every December. Our first year in the pack, second campout, the temperature got down to 27F one night. Those are the good times that you talk about and cherish! The only times we don't camp in tents is when we camp aboard the USS Yorktown Aircraft carrier in SC.

 

The key thing to remember about Cub Scout camping is you have to educate your parents on what works and what doesn't. For example, those cute "Buzz Lightyear" and "Dora the Explorer" sleeping bags ain't gonna cut it. Parents need to purchase sleeping bags rated for the expected temperature. They also need to have appropriate clothing, and the kids and the parents need to know (CRUCIAL INFO ALERT) to have everyone totally change clothes before going to bed.

 

Cabin camping? Bah!

 

[83Eagle]

Cub scouts are not allowed to go winter camping, defined as "any temperature in which the scout would be uncomfortable" per my BALOO training and there is no way I would consider taking cubs tenting in January in Wisconsin.

 

Regardless, I would appreciate someone answering the question that I asked because that is the scenario at hand that I need to make work.

[shortridge]

1. I don't see a way to open an "overnighter" this facility up to female siblings, correct?

 

Incorrect. In a family camping situation, female siblings are allowed, in general ... but it would be very difficult in your situation given the rooms you have available.

 

The relevant rule in the G2SS is:

 

"Single-room or dormitory-type accommodations for Scouting units: Adults and youth of the same gender may occupy dormitory or single-room accommodations, provided there is a minimum of two adults and four youth. A minimum of one of the adults is required to be youth-protection trained. Adults must establish separation barriers or privacy zones such as a temporary blanket or sheet walls in order to keep their sleeping area and dressing area separated from the youth area."

 

So given the minimums (six people of the same gender), you'd have to put your mothers and sisters in the 10-person room, leaving room for only five fathers in the other "adult" room. You'd have to hang blankets or sheets up to separate the sisters' sleeping area from the moms'. You'd have to make sure there were at least four sisters attending.And you'd have to make sure that one mom is YP trained.

 

You could get more fathers by putting them in the boys' room, but you'd have to hang temporary barriers and reduce the number of kids.

 

I hope I'm understanding your question and situation correctly.

 

Edited to add:

 

Some more number-crunching. Given that family camping calls for one parent for every child (or children in the family), if you allow four sisters to attend (remember, that's the minimum you need), then the maximum number of adults you can get in the "adult rooms" is 11 (five dads, six moms). That means 11 Cubs in the main room, leaving 19 spaces. Rounding down to an even number (18), that means there are enough spaces remaining in the main room for nine more Cubs and nine more fathers. So you could have 20 Cubs maximum at this event.

 

This formula changes, of course, if one family sends along a parent and 2-3 Cub siblings. Then you don't need as many adults.

 

(I sure hope my math is right. I have a headache now.)(This message has been edited by shortridge)

[83Eagle]

Yes that's it. The answer seems to be that if the interest is there we could do some creative room configuration.

 

I am unsure on the tiger question though. Do they need their adult partner per TIger guidelines or can they be assigned to an adult per pack overnighter guidelines?

[shortridge]

Since the G2SS's camping section says "Tiger Cubs may participate in boy-parent excursions, day camps, pack overnighters, or council-organized family camping," then I would apply the pack overnighter rules.

 

However, the pack overnighter rules are slightly different from the family camping rules. Under family camping, you need that roughly 1:1 ratio. But pack overnighters can have one adult responsible for multiple Cubs, as long as the Cub reports to a specific adult. You could thus have parents who agree to be responsible for a friend's Cub, and get by with a smaller number of adults. So you'd need to decide if you're going to do this as a family camping trip or a pack overnighter.

 

Personally, I'd strongly recommend that you have a parent attend for every boy, unless the boys are experienced family campers and have slept away from home several times before. The last thing you need to deal with is is an attack of the nighttime panics from someone else's kid who misses mom and dad and Rover and his own bed and his stuffed armadillo at 1 a.m. when you're 50 minutes from home.

 

And don't forget there may be some dads or moms who like to tent camp and volunteer to set up outside the cabin, alleviating the space crunch.

[Shilue]

"any temperature in which the scout would be uncomfortable" isn't really a good definition, as I know scouts that are uncomfortable in 50 degree temperatures.

 

As long as they are dressed properly (which means training the parents in how to dress for campouts), they should be fine.

 

However, I will grant you that January campouts in Wisconsin are probably a bit harsher than January campouts down here in South Carolina.

 

[Phibbles]

Has anybody ever been to a camp-in at a local museum? Do they follow these rules and separate the youth/adults and boys/girls too? I haven't done one yet, but I can't imagine the museum going to all this trouble.

 

I can understand the root cause to have these rules, but I really think they take it a little too far. If we are all sleeping in one big room, do we really need tarps to separate us all? As long as everyone is in their own sleeping bag, what could go wrong?

 

Wouldn't it be better to just setup a private changing corner?

 

IDK - I hate when BSA makes things that once seemed simple, so complicated.

[AnaMaria]

The Tigers have to have their adult partner at every event they attend. It could be a substitute for their regular partner, but I'm not sure why there's a problem with their regular partners attending.

[83Eagle]

I brought this up at CM training last night, first asking what other Packs do for winter in-building camping and then posing my specific scenario.

 

Just like in here, the answers ranged considerably. Most allowed Tigers, but some did not. Those that allowed tigers, some said the adult partner had to come per Tiger rules, others said assigning to an adult per pack overnighter rules is fine.

 

Some Packs held different camp events for dad and son and mom and son. Others opened up camp to the entire family. But nobody could answer what to do in the worst case scenario that every scout wants to come with mom and dad and all his siblings and your building isn't big enough and you don't have the right room configuration. And since reservations for winter camp facilities opens here in JUNE! you have to book your building before you even know what your Pack is going to look like in fall, let alone who might be interested in camping!

 

So then I posed my scenario. Our interest survey revealed 24 interested boys, about 16 interested dads, and 2 interested moms. No siblings expressed an interest so that simplified things a bit. Based on that we're pencilled in to a single-building camp that has one 30-bed room for the boys, one 10-bed room, and one six-bed room. So we can accomodate all the boys but will have to do some jiggling with the adults. The best answer anyone could give me for what happens if we do get to capacity or deal with other adult/child/gender issues and people are upset is "blame it on BSA guidelines."

 

Ok, after all this, I think the real answer is to bite the bullet, stop stressing over it, and just do what is likely to work best for the boys, because that's the reason we're doing this. Hopefully everyone is 100% happy but there is a chance things can go wrong.

(This message has been edited by gotta run)

[clemlaw]

>>>>>>I know scouts that are uncomfortable in 50 degree temperatures.>>>>>For example, those cute "Buzz Lightyear" and "Dora the Explorer" sleeping bags ain't gonna cut it. Parents need to purchase sleeping bags rated for the expected temperature.

[ScoutNut]

If you have a capacity limit on the cabin you are renting, and don't want to rent an additional cabin, then your answer is pretty simple.

 

On your sign up flier state CLEARLY if your event is family, or just parent/Scout. Then also state CLEARLY that there is a capacity limit in the accommodations and you can only accept up to XX number of people. so it is first come, first served.

 

Any reservations received after the cutoff number is reached are returned with the explanation that capacity has been reached, see you at the next campout.

[Scoutfish]

 

 

Can't argue that one!

 

That is how it's done at the local concil and district camp events.

 

They advertise it with plenty of time, but state that slots are limited- first come, first serve! Don't wait or it will be too late!

 

That is just life........ happening.

 

[codger]

Honestly, folks, the BALOO and GTSS rules make things too complicated. Our Pack follows the "overnight at the museum" model of cabin camping - when we stay in a cabin, we stay in a single room lodge with latrines in a separate building. All attendees, men and women leaders, and all children, scouts and siblings, are welcome on a first-come first-served basis until we fill the cabin. All attendees sleep in the one room in cots/bunks. All attendees change clothes (if desired) in the separate latrine facilities.

No one disrobes in the cabin, and there are usually 20-30 pairs of eyes watching everything that goes on, so there is zero chance of anything untoward occurring. Never had a problem.