Completely Confused about Cub Scout Cabin Camping

[83Eagle]

Ok, I am getting myself totally turned around trying to figure out a winter camping idea to propose to the pack.

 

First off, our pack has not camped for many years and as far as I know has never cabin-camped in winter. However the interest is there and as a DL I was able to spearhead a pack family camping event this past summer, so I know the basic drill and logistics.

 

But Im trying to reconcile that with how to move the experience inside. CS camp guidlines say you need at least one adult family member camping with the boy for family camp. It's safe to assume we'd have co-ed adult interest, particularly because we have both male and female DLs. But on the other hand most of the council camp cabins are only two rooms of equal size, so Id have no idea how to handle that, without getting two buildings I suppose which may not be either possible or practical.

 

Anyway, some specific questions:

 

1. Cub Scout camping is supposed to be family camping. Now, while its unlikely that both mom and dad and the scout's siblings are going to want to spend their weekend at camp.... What do you do for PRACTICAL purposes? Do you open the camp only to scout and one adult family member?

 

2. How do you determine the size of the building you need? This is the chicken or egg question. Meaning, do you say, We need to know by X date who is coming, then we will reserve the building? Because the building may very well be spoken for by X date. But if you reserve a building for the size you think you might need so you make sure you can get it, what happens if you have more people interested than you can fit?

 

[shortridge]

Take an informal poll early on of how many families would be inclined to come, then reserve your building that will accommodate at least that many. Make it crystal-clear that there's an upper limit to the cabin's capacity and that it's first-come, first-serve. If they don't sign up (and pay up) early on, there might not be a space.

[tdk101]

This may not be by the book but this is how our Pack handles camping: The Council camp we use for our fall campout has 3 single room cabins. In the 6 years I have been involved in scouts, we have always taken all three buildings so none of them are filled to capacity. This also lets the boys graduate from the big cabin (usually tiger and wolf) cabins (although everyone is welcome in any of the cabins) to the other cabins. Funny how it works that way and it has been my experience the newer scouts like the main cabin because that's where we serve the meals and the experienced parents like the smaller cabins. The kids (scouts and siblings) sleep in loft areas on mattress pads and the adults sleep in army style cots beneath the loft. There's enough room for the adults to spread out the cots to give any co-ed leaders parents a little space. Its explained to everyone that cabins are communal living and usually we post someone at the latrines to ensure privacy when a female is using the "facilities". We go out our way to educate everyone what to expect and are willing to stress that if someone has some concerns to approach a leader and let us know so we can try to develop a workable solution to make everyone happy.

 

I know this may not comply with BSA policies to the letter but we have never had a complaint and out fall camp out is definately a highlight of our program.

[ScoutNut]

Taking BALOO training (which is REQUIRED to take a Pack camping) will help with many of your questions.

 

You said - "its unlikely that both mom and dad and the scout's siblings are going to want to spend their weekend at camp."

 

Why would you say that? Based on one summer camping trip?

 

Our Pack has always had great participation from the entire family. It is fun to watch the Girl Scout siblings teach the boys a thing or two!

 

Since time is short to reserve cabins for this winter so you need to get an approximate headcount ASAP. Find out if there is interest from entire families.

 

Call your council service center and ask what the capacity is for both cabins. If the cost is not to great, you might want to consider renting both cabins. Having more room is never a bad idea. Unless you only get 3 families to attend. You might also want to be clear on your council's refund/cancellation policy.

 

With a Scout/Parent overnighter, depending on the sizes of the rooms, and the number of attendees, you could have boys and dads in one room, with a blanket on a rope dividing the two, and moms in the other room. Or you could have all of the boys in one room, and the adults in another with a blanket on a rope separating them into M/F. Or with two cabins you could do boys in one and adults in another.

 

With a family overnighter, again depending on number of attendees, and room size, you could have boys/dads in one room, and girls/moms in the other. Both with separations for youth/adult. Or, with two cabins, boys/dads in one, girls/moms in another.

 

 

[Eagle92]

Camp did something like cabin camping on the YORKTOWN. basically everyone of a single gender is in one room, both youth and adult. bathroom facilities had a sign that had adults on one side and youth on another. Worked out OK. This approach seems standard as I've seen it work at 3 places that do scouting, and almost did it at a fourth.

 

This is covered in BALOO if memory serves, at least when I was asked about it at the last course.

[83Eagle]

>>Taking BALOO training (which is REQUIRED to take a Pack camping) will help with many of your questions.

 

Why would you assume I would not have BALOO training? Just because I have a question? Yes, I am BALOO trained but it is a different matter to learn something in a book and classroom versus putting it in place in practice. No need for all caps and snarky remarks.

 

Leadership requirements specify "Male and female require separate sleeping facilities...Male and female youth participants will not share the same sleeping facility." (BALOO handbook, Appendix N, items 4-5). But the handbook doesn't talk about ideas for making this work within a single facility. I read about the bathroom issue (Appendix N, item 7) but I didn't think "outside the box" and how that might be applied to the entire facility. And it's that kind of advice gleaned from experience that I am looking for.

 

As you can see, our Pack hasn't done this before so I have no reference point, no experience to go by, no number 6 from the "Six Steps of Planning" (BALOO handbook, Appendix C) to refer back to...yet.

 

Maybe I'm just too afraid of running afoul of BSA guidelines and should just find a way to "get 'r done" within the parameters of the likely-allowable and the spirit of the law.

[T2Eagle]

Regarding enough room for everyone, if you pass the capacity for the cabins you can probably put the Webelos and/or some of the adults out in tents. Most camps don't mind if you pitch a few tents right outside the cabin. For the Webelos you need to decide how "winterish" the camping is, but adults are always fair game. I personally would almost always rather sleep in a tent rather than in a cabin full of people, and the Webelos can use the opportunity to complete an Outdoorsman.

[infoscouter]

The sleeping arrangements can be handled by using tarps or blankets to separate the adults from the kids and the genders from one another. (This is per the Guide to Safe Scouting). Its easier if you have two buildings and put females in one and males in the other. Even if you're not at capacity in the buildings, if you can afford it, its worth it for the ease of the arrangements.

[ScoutNut]

>>"Why would you assume I would not have BALOO training? No need for all caps and snarky remarks."

[Scoutfish]

gotta run,

 

Things are not always as they seem in here. Kinda hard to get what somebody really means when you can't hear the tone of their voice.

 

Most of the time, what appears to be a rude or "snarky" comment - isn't.

 

Now, I know that it's supposed to be some sort of online rule that all caps means yelling...but I use sall caps as a way to place stress or emphasis on what I am saying, not yelling.

 

Personally, I think the yelling things is stupid. Yeling, whispering, talking loudly or regularly? WTH? I'm not talking at all. You are not listening.

 

I'm typing, you are reading.

 

Anyways, sometimes we are being sarcastic, but in a humorous fun way. SOmetimes we are saying something ...but knowing how we meanit to sound , so we assume others do to. But it doesn't always work.

 

UYou can't hear that smile or humor.

 

Anyways, hang sheets or tarps to make bedrooms.

 

I know some folks who will set their tents up inside to creat bedrooms. Never did it myself, but I can see where it will work with the newer tents that have graphite poles that fit into corner pockets - no stakes needed to keep tent erected.

 

Not the most appealing idea to me, but have heard people do it.

 

[83Eagle]

Thanks for the practical advice, as well as the guidelines refresher. It appears I need to dig back into (yet another) manual. Sometimes I'm overwhelmed by the number of different manuals and guidebooks and online stuff, combined with reams of paper and a mindful of stuff from roundtables, Cub College, training sessions...makes me want to be one of these parents that thinks scouting is showing up 5 minutes before the meeting.

 

I understand that misconceptions can occur easily in the online world, so I would only remind everyone that new people here are not privvy to the inside baseball, and they might be feeling particularly stupid about their lack of ability to easily wrap their minds around all this "stuff." But as incoming CM I gotta know all this "stuff" before I present it to the pack and/or pack leadership for consideration. Hence the genesis of my question.

 

So what I'm hearing is...gauge interest, get a facility that will work and there are many ways to make different facilies work, get volunteers, make it happen. Keep it simple, make it fun...

[shortridge]

Gauge interest, set deadlines and collect money early.

 

That gives people skin in the game and makes them less likely to cancel and leave the pack holding the bag.

[83Eagle]

Well, I passed out an "interested in Winter camping?" sheet with "likely to attend" questions at the pack meeting after explaining what winter camping was likely to be all about, and out of our pack of 30 scouts in attendance I had 24 scouts, 20 dads and 4 moms, and 2 sibilings "likely to attend."

 

So...looks like the interest is there...

[Scoutfish]

The thing about camping...with some people..is they focus on the little stuff too much and not the bigger picture:

"What? Sleep in a thin fabric dome in the middle of nowhere without heat/AC ?"

 

But let that first group go. The boys will talk about all the fun they had, the adults will admit - that while not perfect - it wa still fun, and next year, more boys will be dying to go and parents will be willing to try it for the boys sake.

 

 

The next year, they will brag too.

[83Eagle]

All right, so could everyone tell me how you could make this situation work?

 

The scenario is that the council has a camp with a single building. In the youth sleeping area, there are 30 beds. The adult sleeping area is "co-ed," which equates to one room for men, one for women. The adult rooms sleep 10 and 5, respectively.

 

So, without doing any facilities reconfiguration, we have room for 30 youth and 15 adults.

 

Therefore, my questions are:

 

1. I don't see a way to open an "overnighter" this facility up to female siblings, correct?

 

2. Are Tiger Cubs eligible to attend this "overnighter?" And if so, must their "adult partner" attend?

 

Any other concerns?