AOL - how many campouts?

[Eliza]

Ive heard many people say that boys need three campouts for AOL (2 for Outdoorsman, I for AOl #5). My son has done these, but a number of boys in the pack are not going to be able to do this.

 

It looks to me as though you could do AOL with fewer campouts. AOL #5 says overnight campout or day hike. For Outdoorsman, the requirement is two of the first four requirements if a boy did #1 (camping gear) and #2 (evening activity/campfire), plus the five other requirements, wouldnt that be sufficient?

 

Yes, I know camping is preferable, but I was wondering about boys who been unable to camp much, but have attended meeting faithfully and done other AOL requirements. What do you all do in you packs?

[Stosh]

Always go with what the book says and ignore everyone else's 2-cent worth of interpretation. If the book says overnight OR day-hike, then a day-hike is just fine.

 

Of course it has to be a whole day-hike, like 6:00 am - 6:00 pm in order for the boy to get credit. Going out in the late morning with the boys, having a nice sandwich lunch in the woods and walking around looking for plants and animals and tossing a few stones in the nearby lake instead of hiking is not going to get proper credit for the hike. (And if you believe this you don't deserve being a Web DL.)

 

Stosh

[perdidochas]

My reading of it requires no campouts.

 

First for Outdoorsman:

Do Two of these:

 

1. Present yourself to your Webelos den leader, properly dressed, as you would be for an overnight campout. Show the camping gear you will use. Show the right way to pack and carry it.

2. With your family or Webelos den, help plan and take part in an evening outdoor activity that includes a campfire.

3. With your parent or guardian, take part in a Webelos den overnight campout or a family campout. Sleep in a tent that you have helped pitch.

4. With your parent or guardian, camp overnight with a Boy Scout troop. Sleep in a tent that you have helped pitch.

 

And Do Five of these:

 

5. During a Webelos den meeting, discuss how to follow the Leave No Trace Frontcountry Guidelines during outdoor activities.

6. Participate in an outdoor conservation project with your Webelos den or a Boy Scout troop.

7. Discuss with your Webelos den leader the rules of outdoor fire safety. Using these rules, show how to build a safe fire and put it out.

8. With your accompanying adult on a campout or outdoor activity, assist in preparing, cooking, and cleanup for one of your den's meals. Tell why it is important for each den member to share in meal preparation and cleanup, and explain the importance of eating together.

9. Discuss with your Webelos den leader the things that you need to take on a hike. Go on one 3-mile hike with your Webelos den or a Boy Scout troop.

10. Demonstrate how to whip and fuse the ends of a rope.

11. Demonstrate setting up a tent or dining fly using two half hitches and a taut-line hitch. Show how to tie a square knot and explain how it is used.

12. Visit a nearby Boy Scout camp with your Webelos den.

 

 

You can do all of the above without a single campout.

 

Here are the AOL requirements:

1. Be active in your Webelos den for at least six months since completing the fourth grade (or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old), and earn the Webelos badge.

2. Show your knowledge of the requirements to become a Boy Scout by doing all of these:

* Repeat from memory and explain in your own words the Scout Oath or Promise and the 12 points of the Scout Law. Tell how you have practiced them in your everyday life.

* Give and explain the Scout motto, slogan, sign, salute, and handshake.

* Understand the significance of the First Class Scout badge. Describe its parts and tell what each stands for.

* Tell how a Boy Scout uniform is different from a Webelos Scout uniform.

* Tie the joining knot (square knot)

See the Boy Scout Study Guide.

Use this handy Memorization Wheel to learn and review the Scout Oath, Law, Motto, Slogan, and Outdoor Code.

3. Earn five more activity badges in addition to the three you already earned for the Webelos badge. These must include:

* Fitness (already earned for the Webelos badge)

* Citizen (already earned for the Webelos badge)

* Readyman

* Outdoorsman

* At least one from the Mental Skills Group

* At least one from the Technology Group

* Two more of your choice

4. With your Webelos den, visit at least

* one Boy Scout troop meeting

* one Boy Scout-oriented outdoor activity.

(If you have already done this when you earned your Outdoorsman activity badge, you may not use it to fulfill requirements for your Arrow of Light Award.)

5. Participate in a Webelos overnight campout or day hike.

(If you have already done this when you earned your Outdoorsman activity badge, you may not use it to fulfill requirements for your Arrow of Light Award requirements.)

6. After you have completed all five of the above requirements, and after a talk with your Webelos den leader, arrange to visit, with your parent or guardian, a meeting of a Boy Scout troop you think you might like to join. Have a conference with the Scoutmaster.

7. Complete the Honesty Character Connection.

1. Know: Say the Cub Scout Promise to your family. Discuss these questions with them. What is a promise? What does it mean to keep your word? What does it mean to be trustworthy? What does honesty mean?

2. Commit: Discuss these questions with your family. Why is a promise important? Why is it important for people to trust you when you give your word? When might it be difficult to be truthful? List examples.

3. Practice: Discuss with a family member why it is important to be trustworthy and honest. How can you do your best to be honest even when it is difficult?

 

 

Similarly, you can do all the above without a campout.

 

Now, you can't do it without several outdoor activities, but no camping is absolutely required. I will admit, it's easier to schedule all of those with a campout.

[The Blancmange]

The OP does not state her role in the pack; it sounds as if she may be a parent of one Webelos. If that is the case, I don't understand the concern. Is the DL refusing to give credit to boys who used legitimate alternative combinations from the requirements? If so, those boys' parents should approach the DL with the book in hand and point this out. If that does not work; go to the CM; next to the committee or COR; should that fail, enlist the help of the unit commissioner. This can be resolved without reference to what other packs do; the requirements are clear.

That being said, this reminds me of the "Committee Rules Run Amok" thread above where Kudu laments the (theoretical) possibility that a Scout could earn Eagle without ever camping outdoors. Even though AOL could be done without overnight camping, should it? Give these guys every opportunity to get outdoors and camping. For example, our Webeleos have at least 8 opportunities to camp during their +/- 18 mos. they are in the program (2 summer resident camps, invitations to camp with the Troop each spring and fall, and at least 1 Webelos den camping event every spring and fall).  

[bear dad]

I think it would help and should require at least 1 campout,after all this is OUTDOORSMAN badge.

Yes it is easier to do a lot of these while camping, but you don't have too.

 

I have schedule a few campouts so far,

had different boys show up that could. I simpley told parents that I have set up a few campouts, if you can make it great, not be okay too, there will be a chance later.Think it will help a boy to get some camping in for the future.

[Eliza]

Thank you for the replies. I am glad to hear that other people read the Handbook the same way I do.

 

It is actually the CM who is talking about three required campouts. No campouts = no AOL.

 

I guess my question is about wanting to know what other packs do when boys havent been able to camp out (usually because of reluctant or overscheduled parents). Our pack has a very limited number of campouts, so it is not so easy to catch up with AOL five months away.

[ScoutNut]

The CM has no say in how/when the Webelos earn their AOL. That is up to the Webelos den leader.

 

Webelos are the only Scouts who can camp as a DEN, without the rest of the Pack.

 

Talk to your son's Webelos den leader about having a Webelos Den Campout, and some other outdoor activities. Area Troops should be happy to help.

 

It might also help if you offered the den leader to take the lead on some of these activities.

 

 

[Gary_Miller]

No camping is required to earn the AOL. LDS units do not allow scout sponsored overnight camping for boys under the age of eleven. They also only run a one year Webelos program and it works very well. I have never had a problem with boys obtaining the AOL.

 

There is nothing in the outdoors man that requires camping as a den to obtain. It can all be done in a non camping environment or on a family campout.

 

If the CM is requiring three campouts then he is adding to the requirements and that can't be done.

 

 

[Lisabob]

The pack my son joined never did any camping at all! Now his webelos den did do some overnight camp outs (because camping is fun, and good preparation for boy scouts), but there were other years when other Webelos DLs were not so interested in taking their dens camping.

 

AOL does NOT require a certain number of camp outs. Kindly let your CM know that he is incorrect about this. There are a lot of "urban legends" about AOL floating around so he probably picked up this one from a typically trustworthy source - and here's your opportunity to show him the book and gently re-educate him.

 

 

[Eliza]

"The CM has no say in how/when the Webelos earn their AOL. That is up to the Webelos den leader."

ScoutNut -- THANK YOU! I did not realize this. The DL is on the same page as the worried parents.

 

"It might also help if you offered the den leader to take the lead on some of these activities."

DL & I have been emailing. I just finished a graphic organizer thingy showing a few paths we could take to get to AOL. Checking out local camping, campfire & hiking venues. Then we can get a group decision.

 

"adding to the requirements and that can't be done." Gary --exactly!

[83Eagle]

Of course it has to be a whole day-hike, like 6:00 am - 6:00 pm

 

Is there somewhere that I can point to where this is specified? That is, day hike is like day camp, not just a "hike during the day."

[Eagle92]

My question is this: what Webelos doesn't like to camp? grant you 4 trips in a 6 week period is kinda rough;) , but the webelos I know loved to camp and complained that they didn't get to do an overniter in conjunction with CSDC, or cook for that matter.

[Oak Tree]

Of course it has to be a whole day-hike, like 6:00 am - 6:00 pm

 

Is there somewhere that I can point to where this is specified? That is, day hike is like day camp, not just a "hike during the day."The mumbling you hear is Stosh who has his tongue firmly in his cheek.

 

He was, in my interpretation, poking fun at those who seem to have an overly aggressive interpretation of requirements from time to time. He did actually give you a clue by saying "if you actually believe this you don't deserve being a Web DL.):-)"

[83Eagle]

Got it!