Dilemma

[Eagle92]

I am in a big dilemma, and I have no idea of what to do.

 

Our current CM will be leaving in December when his son moves up. We started the process of looking for a new CM last year, and I turned it down for several reasons: 1) told the wife I would be the DL for the first 2 years of each son I (they are spaced out about 2 years), 2) I'm involved on the district committee, esp CSDC, 3) I am also involved on the council's CS outdoor committee, and 4) at the time the pack was running smoothly with lots of parental support so whoever took over as CM would have support. We found someone willing to do it and i was off the hook. But we just found out that after May, the family is moving. So we are back to square one.

 

Reasons 1-3 are the same. #1 above is the most important one as family does come first. But in my district, I am the only CS leader on the committee, and sometimes CSs is an afterthought. Ditto on the council level. At times it feels like if I on the district level or others like Scoutdad on the council level don't mention CSs in planning, it gets overlooked.

 

But 4 has changed. For whatever reason, our parents are not as supportive as before. Also their is some internal dissent among the leaders. I hate to see the pack starting to fall apart, and I don't know what to do. I've tried to focus on my den, but it is hard to do when the pack is having challenges.

[gcnphkr]

Where is the CO in all of this?

[BadenP]

Eagle92

 

Most packs go through this kind of problem when the top dog steps down, everyone wants to have a say in the direction the pack will be heading. It happened with the pack I was involved with as a WDL when the CM resigned when his boy aged out. The main thing is to remind the DL's and committee that you are there first and foremost for the boys and not the adult leaders personal wants. The new parents seeing dissension among the pack adult leaders will be hesitant to step up and volunteer, the pack has to show them that all will continue on just as before and the transition will be without a hitch. Use the CO and pack committee to iron out any SERIOUS differences among the leaders behind closed doors and not at the pack meetings. Lastly whoever takes over as the new CM make sure they are a firm and strong leader who will listen to others but be in control and make the tough decisions.

 

It seems more difficult then it actually is to maintain stability, and whoever is selected as the next CM has got to be a strong leader first and foremost, not necessarily a former den leader or someone with an extensive scouting background. Good Luck.

[dg98adams]

Don't sacrifice your Son's Cub experience because of the council obligations.

There is plenty to do in the Pack before getting on council committees.

 

 

 

 

[Eagle92]

DG,

That's part of the problem, I've been involved with both since before he joined CSs. So far it's worked out very well as I've been working in the background for most things, and taking center stage, literally and figuratively, only at campfire programs when A) mom is also there or B) He is so tired that I know he won't be a typllical 6 year old with other leaders

 

Here's the funny thing, with the exception of CSDC, the other responsibilities do not interfere with me and my son b/c of me being in the background. I do training, I help plan events, recruit for events, and help with set up when I can. I am not running anything when I'm with my son, except the cmapfires.

 

But as a CM, I do not know how it will work out. Plus I need to be with middle child and youngest when they are Tigers.

[packsaddle]

If I were in this situation, I would take the CM position and dump the other committees. The little guys are more important than anything and, take it from me, they're a lot more fun. You can still do the Tiger Cub thing with your son AND be CM. I did it with mine, led the Web 1&2 dens and CM at the same time. If you have supportive ACM helpers, a good treasurer, and committee, it's only "one hour per month", tee hee. Seriously, I'd go back to the cubs in a heartbeat. I guess I'll have to wait until grandson is a little older though.....

Good luck.

[Eagle92]

Well I've talked to the wife, and she want to keep it as if. The district and council stuff at the current time do not take me away from my sons.

 

But after tonites pack meeting, WOW. Only advancement awarded was the stuff I purchased out of pocket b/c I did not hear back from folks if I needed to pick up anything (I work in a neighboring council and can pick up things my council is out of). I bought only for my den b/c that is what I knew about. I don't know what is going on. I knew I was going to miss the leaders' meeting yesterday due to family commitments, but only 2 people showed up, no one had the key, and nothing was done. We have a campout in 2 weeks, and we do not have a cook crew set up, nor did we have a fee collection so we could pay as a pack.

 

Wife and I are going to have a chat tonite.

[Eagle92]

Well I had that chat. Lots to think and talk about. I am going to offer help try and recruit, but need to focus on being a DL. If things don't improve by May, I'll be switching packs. I

[Pack212Scouter]

Let me give my opinions from experience and I'll let you do with them what you will

 

A few years back, I was going into my second year as Den Leader for my son (wolf). I knew that our current cubmaster was aging out in another year and felt that was the direction that I wanted to go.

 

Now first thing that I did was sit down and have a talk with my son. He thought it was really cool that his dad was going to be Cubmaster instead and I had his support. Next thing is I made sure that I had two really good leaders in his den.

 

Second, I'm not going to BS you. Cubmaster will be more work than DL. Here is the catch though. I have gotten more back out of it than I ever put into it. Nothing beats going into church or a resturant and having one of those Cubs run up and tell you all about something!

 

Third, consider program AS IT RELATES TO YOUR SON! I don't get to spend as much time with my son at some events as some other dads do. But he is getting two things out of this. First, he is getting a program and getting to hang with his friends at great events that he may not have otherwise. Second, he gets to see HIS dad stepping up and volunteering...leading by example...and he learns from this.

 

Fourth, I am not naturally comfortable in front of crowds. Being Cubmaster of a Pack of now 206 boys has definitely been a challenge for me. But it has been good for me. It reminds me of Mike Rowe's speech at the National Jamboree. "Scouting makes you do what you are uncomfortable doing....and it makes you like it!"

 

I'm not saying that this is necessarily something that you should do, but these are some things to consider.

[GKlose]

Eagle92 --

 

I've been close to the center of two packs falling apart, and neither one was pretty. Knowing what I know now, I should have stepped up to save the first pack. The problem was that the CM/CC (he was a one-man show, in a small 15-Cub pack) only gave the rest of us about a week's notice between his announcement that he was done and to when he moved to another pack. Four or five others from his son's den immediately moved with him, which took the pack down to almost nothing. The district held an emergency organization meeting with the rest of us, but those that had already decided to move didn't show. The pack died, and just this last year, the troop tied to the pack died (didn't help that the troop blamed its lack of membership on the pack disappearing, even though they did no other recruiting).

 

With that experience, what I learned is that the biggest pain to a declining unit is the parental threat of moving to another pack.

 

The second case: much larger pack, dead from the neck up. The CM/CC (another one-man show, and he was a micro-manager so every detail had to be approved by him) was burning out. He announced he was stepping down. My wife had been running pack meetings, and a den, but our son was moving on to a troop (I was already involved with a troop). The largest single den had a leader who was uninterested in stepping up to CM -- in fact, he told the district (and I knew this because I was on the district committee) to either solve the problem (save the pack) or he would move his entire den to another pack. That would have killed it for sure.

 

The district did save the pack, by bringing in an outside adviser to act as CM for a few months. Luckily other parents stepped up, over time. The pack is still alive, but it wouldn't have been without a district volunteer stepping in to solve a single unit's problems.

 

So on the Scouts-L email list, there is a correspondent who keeps saying "all Scouting is local", and I think he's right. We can fret over all kinds of things, but the bottom line is that if our son is not having a premium experience with his pack, or troop, then that is the most important problem to solve.

 

If you want more detail about either pack falling apart, I'd be happy to provide it. I tried to be succinct above, giving only what I think are the important details.

 

Guy

[Eagle92]

Folks,

Thanks for everything. I hope that doesn't sound bad, b/c I honestly mean it. And I'll be PMing folks as I can. To be honest the situation is all I can think about, and has been a distraction from my job.

 

That said, I shouldn't have mentioned leaving as that is the absolute last resort, esp since I am trying to work behind the scenes to save the pack.

 

I think part of the problem is that the pack did split last year, and we lost some great leaders. One of our DLs was asked to restart his church's pack and be CM. Kinda hard to tell you pastor and church deacons no, esp since alot of the material items are in place: flags, equipment,supplies, etc. form when the pack folded. So we lost some great leaders due to that. And that is something I don't want to do again b/c it would kill the pack.

 

More later.

[CPAMom]

No advice here. Just some empathy.

 

Our pack was very poorly run 2 years ago. CM did practically nothing. Found out no ranks were reported. Campout means a reservation at the local KOA. No program, no sign-ups, just show up. He also handled the popcorn. When I took over as treasurer, I learned that we only made 28% on sales. Should have made 34%. He didn't ask anyone else to be Popcorn Kernal. He didn't jump thru the simple hoops to make 34%. Other events were very bare bone. Why would anyone think Cub Scouts is fun? His kid crossed over in May. AT THE CROSSOVER, END OF MAY, MY HUSBAND WAS ASKED TO BE CM!!! He said if someone would take over his DL position, he would, but could not do both.

 

The year following, last year, we did all we could to help CM & his wife. But our priority was to see a good den program. In 2nd semester, we were blessed with 2 fabulous leaders who moved to our area. By then, we had been to training (never suggested to us the prior year, so didn't know we needed it). We started Pack Committee meetings. I did a big push for more leaders and got 2, which I counted as a huge success. They were both people that we would not have approached.

 

This year, things are so much better. Lots of leader help is going on. 4 new leaders, so far.

 

I say make sure your son has a good den program. If other events are not well-done, while sad, it is not the end of the world. The dens with strong leaders have survived well over the years.

 

You can't do it all well; at least I don't think you can. There is hope.

[Twocubdad]

Here's my story--

 

Within six months of joining the pack with my older son, I was both Wolf Den Leader and committee chairman. The next, fall, when my younger son was ready to join Tigers, I felt the same way as you -- that to be fair to my younger son I needed to be his den leader, too. So I was Bear DL, Tiger DL, committee chairman and getting involved at the district level.

 

Amazingly, I kept it together pretty well for most of the year. By spring, I'll admit that planning for den meetings got a bit ragged. But there were some really good dads in the Tiger den who eagerly took over the den. Yes, my younger son complained that I was DL for his brother and not him. But I never missed a den meeting and was, of course, heavily involved in everything the dens and pack did.

 

Younger son still likes to tease that I "abandoned" his den, but he knows it was just a title. I spent just as much time with him as CC (and later Cubmaster and now Scoutmaster) as I would have as a den leader. In fact, my bigger issue has been trying to find opportunities for the boys to to stuff WITHOUT me.

 

So don't get hung up on your promise to be DL for each boy. Nothing says you can't be highly involved with the dens, even if someone else is running the show. And if the pack folds ....

 

Look -- anyone who can survive camp school and run a day camp can do anything. With your enthuasism for the program, I'm sure you'll provide a great program for all the boys, including your younger sons.

 

 

[Eagle92]

Well since I don't have a lot of free time to explain the situation in toto to everyone, I'll do it here. Pack was one of those that had a phenominal CM and AMC team, and while they did a good bit on their own, the committee was up and running, usually following their lead. Those two folks, I'll call the Dynamic Duo, had alot of energy, maybe even more than I have. By any account the pack was the most active in the district.

 

But as happens once the sons age out we lose folks. And that happened: the pack lost the CM, ACM, and a good number of the committee within 6 months. So the pack was scrambling for replacements, found some, and that is when I entered the picture as a TCDL, (I registered in May and oldest officially joined in June, but did attend a campout and service project in May).

 

But within 3 months of me joining, a split occured. One of the DLs was asked to restart his church's pack. And when he did, he took about 1/4 of the pack with him, as well as several of the committee members. So it was an intersting year last year.

 

We lost a few more folks who helped out last year due to aging out. And we are having challenges replacing them.

 

But the biggest challenges I have are the lack of planning, and lack of budget. By lack of planning I mean we do not have a calendar out yet. We also have several events scheduled the same weekend. And on one trip, there was very little organized. Talk about ad libbing.

 

As for budget, none was posted. At the pack meeting, only awards given out were the ones I bought b/c I didn't hear if anythign was purchased. Sorry but that is one of my pet peeves: not giving the scouts what they earned in a timely manner. So no one knows what's going on.

 

Now a little about me and the job, both good, bad, concerns, etc.

 

I admit I am a program freak, and am passionate about scouting. But to be honest the administrative, i.e. paperwork, is a weekness of mine. You would think someone trained to be an archivist could keep their files and paperwork in order So PLUS is program oriented, MINUS is administartive detail.

 

I also have a concern because from the pack's first CM/ACM team, aka the Dynamic Duo above, there is an expectation that the CM does everything: goes to all roundups, RTs, etc etc. I've heard grumblings b/c current CM does work some nites and couldn't make it to every RU this year. I am unable to do things Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Fridays due to family commitments. And this year with my son's CCD or Sunday school, classes being mandatory, I will be leaving any campouts Saturday nite. So that is making me a little uncomfortable.

 

Another concern for me is burn out. I know how much is involved in being CM, and worry if I will lose interest in scouting before youngest ages out. It almost happened when I was OA chapter adviser and it's repetitive cycle: get youth elected as officers, train them, mentor them, let them do things for one or 2 months, and they leave for college or the military and so you start all over. Being OA chapter adviser was no longer fun at the end, and it was good to move to CS with oldest. I guess I don't want to lose the passion as I almost did.

 

In addition to the above, I was thinking about taking on some responsibilities as a religious awards coucilor. We have no one in the community who is invovled in that program for my faith, with the church annoucning those intersted could do the program at another church 2 or 3 counties over in another council. EDITED: thsi was something I just started talkign about doing before I realized the severity of the situation.

 

Finally a more selfish reason for not wanting the position. Moving forma large city to a small town was culture shock, and the one thing that kept me going was the folks I met and worked with onthe district committee. That group of friends more than anything helped me out in some troubling times, both as a pro and as a volunteer. So that is a another, grant you selfish reason why i would liek to stay on the district. Both the wife and I have concerns about what would happen if i didn't have as much contact with them.

 

Again everyone thank you for your input. Keep me in your prayers.

(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[Lisabob]

It all sounds clear to me. From your various posts (here and in other threads) I get a strong sense that you do not want to be the CM right now. So don't be. It really is as simple as that, although it never seems so from the "inside."

 

If you're feeling really guilty about it, offer to assist the pack with recruiting a good CM. Maybe there are some folks out there who don't even have boys in the pack, but who you know (from other connections) would do a great job. Grandparents are also potential sources. Bottom line is, it doesn't need to be YOU.

 

And honestly, if you have a strong den program, you will keep most of your boys even if the pack program isn't as great. It absolutely does not work, the other way around.