New 5th grade boys

[jamist649]

I know this question has been asked before, but I'll ask again. What do we do with brand new Scouts who are in 5th grade? My W2DL has told me (CM) that he does NOT wish to do any backtracking to accomodate these boys but will welcome them into the Den. I'm considering 2 options:

 

#1-Let them join with no intention (unless they are feeling very ambitious) of completing program. Basically "hang out" with Den/Pack, prepare for Boy Scouts.

 

#2-Put them in Webelos I Den. They will be with younger boys, but will get the whole "deal". This will be pending approval from Scout, parent, and WIDL.

 

Not sure about option 2 or if I "can". Anyone have any GOOD experience with new W2s?

 

 

[Scoutfish]

"My W2DL has told me (CM) that he does NOT wish to do any backtracking to accomodate these boys but will welcome them into the Den. "

 

As I see it, he is correct and choosing the best thing to do.

 

 

The thing is, the boy does not have to have a list of completed items to be a Boy Scout.

 

He does need to have wrked his way through Webelos, and Arrow of Light to get in the Boy Scouts EARLIER, than usual.

 

Know what I mean? he could drop out, and then join a troop next year if he wanted.

 

so where dores tnat leave us:

 

Let the boy join in with the other W II's and work along side them in whatebver they are doing. He will have fun and enjoy it. He will still get to do troop/webelos joint camping ( or whatever you call it) he can still hang out with his den.

 

Who knows, maybe the DL might even decide to work with the boy on doing extra activity badges and possibly bet that AoL award.

 

"-Put them in Webelos I Den. They will be with younger boys, but will get the whole "deal". This will be pending approval from Scout, parent, and WIDL."

 

This will probably make him feel like he's standing out like the "sore thumb". Might even cause him embarassment.

[Novice_Cubmaster]

A lot depends on how many new 5th grade boys you have. And how many of them want to try cramming 18 months into 9.

 

If you have enough to make a functional den, and they really want to make a go of it - then let'm try & have your existing W1 & W2 leaders facilitate & mentor.

 

Main thing is, they should get as much as possible out of Cubs as they can. And have fun.

 

NC

 

PS - just because your current W2's might be crossing over in February or March doesn't mean this new crop can't take a few months more.

[jamist649]

Hey Fish,

 

Yeah, I understand the W2DL not wanting to backtrack. His boys are way ahead of schedule and he has a BIG den to deal with already.

 

Last year, right after I took over as CM, we had a PILE of new W2s sign up and just about all of them dropped due to the fact that they felt like they were "behind" and couldn't catch up. I was just trying to avoid that again.

 

I think I'll explain to them what the situation is and let them use this season as a "ramp up" to joining the Troop. I don't know if I wouldn't have just told them to wait like you said, but then you may never get them into the program, PLUS my DE was all "HEY!!" "Who wants to be a CUB SCOUT!!" Come on in!! LOL

[Scoutfish]

EWell, my point was that I'd try to get the boy to just have fun with it. Matter of fact, you could even tell him he is lucky as he doesn't have any pressure to "complete" the rank. He can just have the fun until he crosses over at the end of the year or just moves up next year.

 

But you know how it is, We say one thing based on the here and now, but in a few months, the boy's attitude and participation may bring the DL to seeing if the boy wants to double up and try to get all the AB's and AoL in.

[gcnphkr]

You do need to make sure that they understand that while the rest of the den may earn their AOL and crossover in March that they will not be able to join Boy Scouts until school is out. Although you will likely find a SM willing to let them come visit for a couple for months.

[Basementdweller]

Our boys cross over in 9 months anyhow. We attend summer camp and webelo woods. It is easy to do. So a 1st year webelos is gonna get treated the same irregardless of 4th or 5th grade status.

 

 

 

[jamist649]

Thanks for all the replies. This question seems to come up every year, with my Pack and with just about everybody else's that I know. Being a new Scout can be confusing enough when you have no experience at it, add that to the whole "you've got alot to do to catch up and crossover..." thing and we tend to lose the majority of our new 5th graders every year. Its a shame.

[ScoutLass]

Ask the boys what they want. Take a few minutes to explain to the new scouts that it is possible to earn the awards, but much of it is up to them as it is no longer possible for them to do most of teh work in the den setting. Not every activity pin has to be earned with the den after all, they can work on them at home. Give them an outline of what pins they will be working on with the den that year and let them know what other ones they need if they want their Webelos rank and AOL. Make sure the parents are aware also. The boys that want the awards will work toward them and likely achieve them, and the boys that just want to hang out can just hang out.

 

Honestly, I don't think it should be up to the adults to decide the boys "can't" do it in this case. It's up to the boys. If you have a lot that joined that want to push toward Web rank or AOL, then it may just be worth it to set up another Webelos den for them.

 

If you decide for the boys that they can't catch up, they'll feel like you are holding them back. If you try to force them to catch up, they'll feel rushed and be unhappy. If they make the choice, they'll likely be satisfied with it.

[Pack212Scouter]

We have successfully done two things. The parent should discuss this with the new Scout and decide after talking to the Cubmaster...or by talking to the Cubmaster.

 

1) They are placed into a Webelos 1 Den since both are working towards Webelos. Our Webelos 2 bridge in late March. If they have turned 11 by then then they don't need AOL. If they won't then they can work on the few extra things for AOL in that 6 months (Oct-Mar). We usually put them into a Webelos 2 Den around the end of January so they can get to know the boys (most of ours go to the same troop as a group).

 

2) They are placed into a Webelos 2 Den with the idea that the group is working on AOL and they will have to make up the Webelos rank requirements on their own.

 

Once we were lucky enough to get 7 new Webelos 2 Scouts. They formed their own Den and plugged out AOL before brigeover.(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

[bbender]

Looking at the original two options (No. 1 being "hang out" with the Den, but no Webelos or AoL option, and No. 2 being drop back to the Web I's and get Webelos Badge, maybe later AoL) let me echo and detail how to handle the third option IF they are actually interested in earning Webelos and AoL and "sticking with" the current Web II guys so that they can cross over before the end of 5th Grade:

 

-- Put them in your Web II Den and do what you'd planned with your Web II guys. No "backtracking" on your Web II Den plan. No added duties on the Web II Den Leader. I assume that they will pick up a number of Activity Badges, and then the "catch up" will be Fitness and Citizen and maybe Outdoorsman and Readyman if you did those last year.

 

-- Then for what they're missing, either hook them up provisionally with selected Web I Den Meetings when they do Fitness and Citizen (and anything else they needs), or do a little of what in our Pack we call "Webelos Tutorial" for those badges. Web Tutorial might also be supported by the Troop (especially if your guys already have Outdoorsman), but may also be supported by one or more parents of one of the new Web II guys who can be tasked as an Assistant (or Activity Badge Counselor -- and fitness and citizen are very easy for the random volunteer to cover) for the missing activity badge. So they make up those "outside" of the Web II meetings (but possibly during campouts). Another option is having another non-Den Leader handle this (we have an Assistant Cubmaster/Webelos that has done this).

 

-- So . . . assuming this is what they want, let them earn AoL on their schedule (assuming they are motivated and knock off 8 Activity Badges, the hardest part is the 6 month tenure).

 

-- If your AoL and crossover comes before then, when the others get the AoL, they can be recognized for being "very close". When the other Web II Scouts "cross over", if they need more time, they can stand with them on the "Cub side", but not cross the bridge, and saying "Hey! Don't forget about us . . . I'll be with you guys in just ____ days . . . But we're staying to finish Arrow of Light like you guys did!!!"

 

-- When the crossed-overs go to Troop Meetings and Outdoor Activities during the gap between crossover and the new guys getting AoL, let the late AoL crowd come and hang with the Troop for repeat visits.

 

--- Then on or after the six month mark, they get Arrow of Light and cross over.

 

It's actually pretty easy, if you just get the parent or leader to conduct the tutorial on the missing required badges, because while a two year Webelos may earn all 20 badges, ya only need 8 to get AoL. This is not to say that they can't aim for all 20, but if the goal is hang with their Web II guys and cross over into Boy Scouts together . . . it can be done easily.

 

Worked great for us.

 

[Greaves]

I'm a W2DL this year, and I have 2 new guys. This thread was so timely. (Most of our guys have enough activity pins for the AoL)

 

I gave my new boys the Fitness & Citizen worksheets (from meritbadge.org and elsewhere) and talked to the boys and parents about what the Webelos Badge will take. I also made sure the boys know that the den will help them with the flag ceremony requirements, and anything else that needs to be done in a group. (Flag ceremonies are a big part of Boy Scouts, and more practice is always good)

 

I know the worksheet just prints out the requirements from the book, but a boy who is working independently (or a parent who is helping) could benefit from a fill in the blank approach for "who is the president? Who is the governor of your state?"

 

I think, as den leader for the 5th grade boys, that includes all of them--even the new ones. I think there will be enough of them to have meetings after crossover as long as they want to keep meeting.

 

I hope all the new guys go to Webeloree. They really need the camping, and earning the activity pins offered would help them feel successful, too.

[Stosh]

I took over a WebI den and for two years ran the program twice.

 

First time the boys got their pins etc. at the CS level.

 

The second time through the requirements were "reviewed" and then we went on to the challenges of those requirements using the BS handbook. Readyman/First Aid, Swimming/Swimming, etc. In fact the boys basically earned AOL twice but the second time through it was a wee bit more challenging/exciting knowing they were doing "Boy Scout" stuff. (Our spring campout, was a mini-camporee where the WebII boys would get some idea of what a campout would be like, ran some competitions, did the meals, slept out, etc.) The boys did a "shake-out" backpacking trek. Got backpacks, loaded them up and went for an afternoon hike where we stopped and did a meal out in the woods on a fire they started, etc. We could have done it with a daypack, but the big boy packs with waist belts, etc. were a bigger sell. 90% of an adventure is in your head anyway.

 

With this system, we wouldn't have any problems had any boy wanted to join "in the middle" of the program and still get his AOL.

 

Stosh

[perdidochas]

I did #1 last year, and will do it again this year.

 

Basically, they get a quick intro to scouts--if they want the badges, etc., they need to work on them on their own. Other than that, they participate with the other second year Webelos. I do encourage them to advance, but I do that more like a Boy Scout Leader, in that there is not enough time to accomodate everybody.

[perdidochas]

I did #1 last year, and will do it again this year.

 

Basically, they get a quick intro to scouts--if they want the badges, etc., they need to work on them on their own. Other than that, they participate with the other second year Webelos. I do encourage them to advance, but I do that more like a Boy Scout Leader, in that there is not enough time to accommodate everybody. My loyalty, first, lies with the Webelos who are in their second year.