Pack Fee and Cannot Pay

[evmori]

I can sell hoagies for $5 and make $3 per sale. I can sell candy for roughly the same. The more affordable the product the better the sales. Trails End popcorn is overpriced! $40 for 36 bags of microwave popcorn? That's overpriced!

[CPAMom]

Evmori, I could not agree with you more. There are 2 big categories of customers. One views the popcorn as "what the kids are selling now," not supporting scouting. That customer will say no to the overpriced stuff. The other customer wants to support scouting, so it does not matter what the product is, and they seem to pony up to the price if they can. However, there is a price point where it won't sell. Our Council's $12 and $18 products may be those points in our area.

 

Two years ago, there was a $30 pack that consisted of 6 smaller boxes of 5 in a pack. We sold those individually at Show & Sell. I personally felt good about those sales. You are asking people you don't know to purchase something well under $10. Yeah, we only made about $2 per box, but at least it was not embarrassing. Then Council took those out of the product line because you really were not supposed to do that.

[boomerscout]

"Couple of observations: In our den, I know two families well with plenty of income. One parent says her son in allergic to peanuts and therefore can't sell popcorn. So, for the past 2 years, we foot the bill for common costs; they pay nothing. Another parent of 2 scouts says they don't have anyone they know who they can sell to. Again, we are footing the bill for those kids who have the means to pay."

I don't understand why they are getting a free ride. Mail an invoice to their house so they can pay it with the other bills

 

"On poor families - How is it that they are so poor but show up at the campout with a new, large tent?" Tent may be borrowed (or stolen Egad!). Or, it goes back for a refund within 90 days.

"One parent buys her kid a Mountain Dew at a convenience mart every week on the way to scouts." Too many "adults" can't budget. A dollar out of the purse for a soda pop is no big deal; having to come up with $65 all at once can be shock & awe. Would you be willing to collect $2 a week instead?

[Scoutfish]

"On poor families - How is it that they are so poor but show up at the campout with a new, large tent?"

 

Don't forget Grandma & Grandpa power! The grandparents will slap down $100.00 for a tent a because Jr said.....that mom and dad said - the reason they couldn't go camping was that they didn't have a tent.

 

But since grandma and grandpa didn't warn ( AKA ask) mom and dad. they are stuck going to a campout . They payed money that should have went somewhere else and slept in a tent that cost them 0.0$

 

Yes, that did happen at one of our pack campouts.

Yes, they all had a great time.

Yes, their home phone got cut off until next payday.

 

Now for some personal perspective.

 

I install garage doors for a living. I get paid piece work, which means I get a percentage of the job price. That's it. I do not make hourly wages, nor do I get a base commission.

 

I average about $90.00 to install a 16 wide X7 tall garage door with a motor. That is with all the extra 130 mph hurricane bracing.

 

It takes me 2 and 1/2 hours on average to do it. Unless I have to move material out of the way. or work in cramped conditions, or make a door fit on an old 1940's house which was not planned for a garage door.

 

Point being, the pay is the same. The longer it takes, the less I make. If the job is not ready, or something is ordered wrong, homeowner forgets appointmemnt, job canceled, etc...I make $0.

 

Maybe I install 4 16 X7's in a day and make $360.00 ...befor taxes, insurance, and all other deduction.

 

Maybe it's just a crappy day, and I make $10.00 for driving time only.

 

Now, maybe nobody noticed it, but the economu went to pieces a few years ago. Housing market crashed. Alot of builder and construction industry people lost their jobs.

 

I saw people go from making over $50,000.00 a year to making $0 in a days time.

 

Me, I do okay as I have been doing it for 15 years and will be the last one without work at my company..which went from 16 full time installers 3 years ago to 5 right now.

 

Point is, stuff happens. We bought my wife a almost brand new( had 30,000 miles on it) 2008 PT Cruiser last year. Saved money and paid cash for it. Got the title a week later ( that was amazing too!)

 

Right now, we can't spare the money to get the A/C fixed. The warranty is out because we racked up miles when I was battling cancer..which also eats into your savings.

 

 

So, what I am getting at is that people look at the fact that we have a boat, a car, a truck, a van that is paid for...two dogs, 3 tents, a nice gas grill , 2 computers and wonder why I can't just go out to every council campout and scout weekend.

 

Well, we had the monet when we bought uit, but then the economy snuck up on us and cancer gave us a fit and my money snuck off!

 

WE have a policy in my pack: Every scout does his best to do his part. That could be selling popcorn, selling our two yearly fundraiser tickets, cleaning up pack and den meetings, helping serve food at B&G's or working a bit more while camping.

 

Sometimes, we are probably getting taken, but it's our job to do what we do for the kids and not judge them based on how their parents act.

[MarinesWife]

For our pack, having scout accounts has increased our sales tremendously. With roughly the same number of boys, in 2008 we sold $10K, in 2009 we sold $15K (and I think it could have been higher but we ran out of show n sell and canceled 3 more days of booths), and this year we are at almost 20K and still have another booth sale weekend and more sales to go.

 

And our fee is high. $175. We give 25% in scout account money. Guess what? They sell the popcorn to get there and we don't stress about money. And parents who really want the next council camps paid for go above and beyond and help their Scout sell even more.

 

 

Also, it kind of distresses me to hear your Council is selling the popcorn for such odd amounts. I really feel for you. Ours are in $5 increments..the small one is $10 and it sells pretty easily.

 

Also, we have taught our boys to say something like, "Would you like to support Scouting?" before mentioning the cost of the popcorn. And then say thank you, 70% goes to Scouts.

[shortridge]

I bought some overpriced popcorn the other day. I was walking out of the local grocery store with my daughter, and a Webelos jumped in front of us: "Excuse me, sir, would you like to buy some popcorn?" I didn't have any cash, so we went back into the store and hit the ATM. The two Webelos Scouts did all the talking - a full sales pitch! - and made the change. The two dads just handled the money.

 

I could have gotten it inside the grocery store for about a third of the cost. But it was worth it for me to see the little guys so enthusiastic and serious.

 

Is it worth it for the general public that doesn't have a connection with Scouting? Not a chance. Trails End in its current configuration is an unsustainable fundraiser, especially in this economy.

[Scoutfish]

 

 

Boy, talk about hitting te nail on the head.

 

We have realized for some time that the public outside of scouting- wether Girl Scouts, Cub/Boy scouts, crews , etc... just don't see it much more than paying too much.

 

And the reason is..they do not have a personal connection. If they do not have kids,grandkids, their relatives have kids , or possibly had been scouts themselves in scouting...then it's a matter of paying $10 for a small box of popcorn or going to Wal-Mart and buying a 5 gallon can for $3.

 

Yeah, some peole do like to support a good cause, but what is the public's idea of a good cause? Not everybody thinks like me or you.

 

That's one of the biggest reasons we do the BBQ chicken dinners.

 

Half of the people "might" do it in support, but the other half are only in it because they get a meal for their $$$, not because it helps anybody out.

 

Then of those who do it only for their own gain, well...that's because the price is good for what they get: 1/4 chicken, green beans, boiled potatos, a roll/cornbread/bread, a glass of tea and a dessert. for $6.00.

 

That's a comparable price to pretty much every restaurant around us including the fast food joints...but without the wait that the restaurants or even the fast food places have.

[evmori]

in 2008 we sold $10K, in 2009 we sold $15K

 

This is either a huge unit or one that has a huge bank account!

[MarinesWife]

I think in 2008 we had 25 boys but I wasn't the popcorn kernal so I don't how many sold. In 2009 we had 22 boys sell out of 28 at the time. And this year 2010 we have 36 active scouts but since we're not done I don't know how many have sold. So far only 14 have picked up popcorn from me and/or sold at booth sales.

 

In 2008 there was nothing for the boys really except the prizes. Nothing to motivate the adults. In 2009 I did the scout accounts but it wasn't smooth. This year I had a year under my belt. We're giving a straight 25% and it's really made a difference.

 

We are on a military base and do feel very supported, but it's a small base, we sell to the neighborhoods quickly. We lose approx 1/3 of our Scouts each year due to moves.

 

We do have a healthy bank account and I'm very thankful for that. When we joined this pack the bank account was withdrawn and they had 8 boys. The beginning of the 3rd year later we have 36 (after losing 1/3 each year!) and we are selling more than 20K this year. Everyone is excited. I only hope that when our core leadership moves on others step up to the plate.

[evmori]

What are you doing with that healthy bank account?

 

Who does the selling?

[onevoice]

"And our fee is high. $175"

 

I willingly admit I am new at this, but that is the highest number I have ever heard. What is covered in that amount?

 

That number is over 2.5 times what the originator of this thread said they figured their Packs cost per scout is.

 

 

 

 

[MarinesWife]

Registration

Boy's Life Magazine

Insurance

Neckerchief & Slide

Book

Pack t-shirt

Pack campout fees

Pinewood Derby car

Raingutter Regatta boat

Patches

Awards

Den Supplies

Field Trips

and more....

 

Does not include Council camps

 

When we added in all those things from last year including the average for the amount spent on awards/supplies/etc. it came to $185.

 

Because we do have more $ from popcorn than just the $175 per boy we use that money to do what we call "get ahead." We keep a stock of books and neckerchiefs. WE make sure there is always a healthy amount in our store account so that we can always get awards. We buy the t-shirts ahead of time. WE often give t-shirts to adults for stepping up at a camp. We pay for our leader books and training. We have money for 5 scholarships. If we're still sitting healthy than we pay for all the food for a campout instead of charging the families for it. AND this past year we made sure to have money at the end of the year to start off our new year without financial stress. We're also able to do things like have a pizza party in the summer and pay for the whole thing...though it was only like $130 total...but still. Those things add up. Our committee has the philosophy that if something costs more than a lot of parents feel like they're getting more. It's a better program. It is what has worked for us.

 

In regards to the boys not selling because of certain reasons, that would not excuse our parents from paying the full fee anyway. EACH family helps the pack go, not just SOME families. And if a family makes a need known to me then we help them. WE've purchased 2 uniforms so far this year. But those families are still selling popcorn!

 

Course....we also do not suggest partial uniforms... The list of what they need to buy includes each item in the uniform. If that's what we tell the parents the uniform is, then that is what they buy.

 

I'm not saying our way is the only way. Packs everywhere have great ways of doing things. But I often see packs talking about struggling with money and I'm offering a different viewpoint or rather a different attitude regarding it. When a family doesn't want to pay $65 for a WHOLE YEAR's activity for their child...something else is wrong in the picture....

[MarinesWife]

I know some people have said they'd lose families if they raised their fees. I just don't believe it's about the fee. I think it's just their choice.

 

We didn't lose a single family when we raised our fee this year. Last year it was $70 or something...it was all broken down and didn't include very much. We thought we might lose families or get a lot of complaints but we were willing to chat with them individually. We did have one newish family complain. They had been in a pack in a different state who charge approx the same and didn't think they got their money's worth. I showed them the breakdown for our budget and then they understood AND realized they were getting their money's worth at the other pack too.

 

I'm sure there were people that did not choose to join Scouting this year because of our fee. But I think that would be true no matter the cost. I had 2 people last year not join because they thought it was FREE. Scouting isn't for everyone....as much as I would like it to be.

[CPAMom]

Well, our numbers are starting to drop. Not as many kids that signed up are showing up. In my husband's den, one kid who was real excited at an outing has not shown up for the past 2 meetings. At the last meeting he attended, his parent left early and was talking with teens in the parking lot. I conclude that she is not interested any longer.

 

My prediction is that the kids that don't sell popcorn or pay the fee will simply quit coming at the end of October when all that is due. Normally, we would see them come with inconsistent attendance thru January when BSA National dues are collected before they drop out completely in January. Three more months of scouting would just provide a different environment for these kids who would ordinarily be home with the TV on what ever ridiculous show their parents/guardians have on.

 

Scoutfish - I'd like to know what you want us to do for you if you were in our pack. And honestly, for a parent & scout in your situation, whatever you said, I'd make sure it happens.

[evmori]

So basically, the Cub family pays nothing if they sell their allotment of popcorn, correct?

 

The math doesn't work 36 boys at $185/boy = $6,660. What is the other $10K for?

 

Who does the selling?