Pack Fee and Cannot Pay

[CPAMom]

I'm the treasurer and figured out that it really does cost $65 per scout (at least; the number of scouts is up for debate) for a year of scouting at the pack level. So, this year, we are saying that a scout needs to either pay a $65 fee, by paying $35 in the fall and $30 in January, or sell popcorn to cover these amounts. (Sell $100 to earn the 1st $35, sell another $100 to earn the 2nd $30.) I have some people who are rushing to the sign-up sheets for Show & Sell slots. I'm worried that they won't take any orders and will end up not earning the fees. So, earn your way or pay your way are the options I've come up with.

 

I'm sensing that several kids are from destitute situations. The school where most boys attend is a Title 1 school. What are some good ways to handle these? We've said that money should not prevent you from participating in scouting.

 

By the way, I'm also worried that no one is going to buy the extremely expensive stuff, with a starting price of $12 for a bag and $18 for the next item up. At some price point, people shopping at Walmart are just going to say "no thank you."

[kbandit]

Have a talk with your District Executive (DE) he/she maybe be able to help those in true need with registration fees. Have you thought about another fundraiser? Don't know who sponser's your pack but maybe if they knew of the need they may help. Talk to your Charter Organization Rep.

 

It is important to assess need on a case by case basis and to keep the information confidential. Only the leadership who needs to know does and keeps it confidential also. Not something I would broadcast at a committee meeting with names. Do not embarass anyone.

 

Have you thought of maybe breaking the payments in monthly payments? Sometimes $10 is easier than 30/35 that pays the water bill.

[Basementdweller]

We are in the exact same situation as an inner city Pack. This year we laid down the law. Last night was the Parents meeting......We told them here is the expectation you are on the hook for 90 bucks and here is what we provide for your $90. They made funny faces, there were some gasps and even one bolted for the door.

 

I yelled wait there is hope. Over the summer I secured store front sales opportunities in rich suburbs. we are a Pack of 40 boys and with what is arranged I have 200 2 hour slots for selling in front of stores....in a nutshell each boy will have 10 hours of store front sales opportunity.

 

They are expected to also sell door to door.

 

I got a phone call from the council kernel asking why our order was double last years.......

 

Our budget with recharter is $127.

 

In worse case there are some council programs, but I try to steer our boys away from them.......A scout earns his own way.......I have seen some really tough situations and they boys earn their way.

[CalicoPenn]

Maybe I'm just not getting it so bear with me.

 

I'm a parent in your pack. You just told me it costs $65 per year for my Cub. You say I can pay the $65 and I don't have to drag my son around to stores, or door to door, or drag the order form to work and beg for people to buy popcorn. Maybe last year I (my son) was the Pack's top seller, selling, oh, maybe $1,000 worth of popcorn, but this year, now I don't have to. I'll gladly pay the $65 so I don't have to bother with popcorn sales.

 

Now at $35 to the Pack per $100 sold, if I sold that $1,000 worth of popcorn, that's $350 to the Pack, minus my $65, for a loss to the pack this year of $285, which would fund the activities for 4 poorer Cub Scouts.

 

Or maybe I was the top seller last year at $1,000 and since I only have to sell $200 to earn the $65, I just won't work as hard - once I hit $200 in sales, I'm done. Result? Still a loss to the Pack.

 

And speaking of $35 per $100. If the first $100 gets me $35 and the 2nd $100 gets me $30, what happened to the other $5? Don't I have to sell a few dollars less than $100 the second time around to make $30?

 

I'd suggest a different way of looking at it. Develop the hard costs first - Registration per person ($15), allowance for awards ($10 per year?), cost of pinewood derby kit ($4). That's your Pack dues amount - $29. That's the fee to charge every member of the Pack. Those that need assistance can be dealt with individually - either a payment plan set up or help with a grant program (some units have arrangements with their sponsors or a local service organization to help sponsor needy Cubs, where they will cover the basic fees, as long as they aren't out of line).

 

Everything else is funded through your fundraisers. Whether it's your popcorn sales, or something else, the key is to meet with the parents at an early Pack meeting (a good time for the Den Chiefs and a couple of Den Leaders to take the lads outside for a quick game) and explain that the registration fees covers a very basic program - registration, awards and pinewood derby cars, but that everything else is paid for through the fundraiser and you need as many people as possible to pitch in to make sure the PACK has the best year possible. Yep - this is time for communitarianism - everyone is in it together, and everyone is pitching in for the common good - the Pack, not just for their own sons. Some will do better than others - heck, some may not participate at all, but most of the time, you'll be in far better shape if you let the fundraising proceeds dictate the program budget rather than letting the program budget dictate an annual fee.

 

 

[Pack212Scouter]

We have found that Scout accounts cover alot of this. They can use 25% of their gross popcorn sales to pay for dues and activities. The Pack uses the other 4% for overhead costs. We have set dues which can be covered from their sales. For boys that cannot afford dues, etc. We have a Scholarship fund, but part of it is that they are required to participate in fundraisers. If a boy drops out of Scouting, his leftover account funds go into the scholarship fund to replenish it.

 

Now, it requires a little extra work, but our popcorn sales have never been higher. Most boys fundraise most if not all of their own program costs after the initial scholarship.

 

If you want to go with a dues and scholarship method there are several things to consider....

- You may have a fairly well off parent in the Pack that would be willing to start it off with a $200-$1000 donation.

- You might be able to get one of the local malls to donate their fountain coins for it. (they usually clean them out 3-4 times a year and give it to charities). In this case, you will have to clean and roll them (we had a cleaning & rolling party for it)

- Most Councils will Scholarship BSA registration fees with a financial assistance form. Additionally, some Councils may scholarship uniform shirts.

- Scholarships are higher than ever right now. We have scholarshiped about 10% of the roster this year, and its probably closer to 15% of active Scouts(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

[CPAMom]

CalicoPenn - Thanks for your response. I'm sure I will have a parent like you in the pack. I will get busy on the IYOS thing and prepare for anyone who says what you said.

 

We pay for certain items whether your kid shows up or not. We have tablecloths for events, supplies for crafts, patches. Our pack foots the bill for den leaders registrations and supplies they need for the program. Group costs. Cub Scouts does not happen for free.

 

I don't see how awards are only $10 per scout in your pack. Ours run $35 - $40 average. We do have belt loops going on, so maybe that is it.

 

We really need everyone to either sell close to $200 for this or pay $65. I could set the goal at $182.50 to be precise.

 

Only a few hard working kids & parents sold that last year. Maybe 10 out of 30. Donations were high at Show & Sell, and we got some bonus money from Council for selling more than the prior year. With only 30 kids, it worked out that the hard work of a few paid for the program for many.

 

On the first $100 level of sales, we are actually losing $2 if you sell $100 in popcorn. At the next $100, yes, we are making $3.

 

Couple of observations: In our den, I know two families well with plenty of income. One parent says her son in allergic to peanuts and therefore can't sell popcorn. So, for the past 2 years, we foot the bill for common costs; they pay nothing. Another parent of 2 scouts says they don't have anyone they know who they can sell to. Again, we are footing the bill for those kids who have the means to pay.

 

On poor families - How is it that they are so poor but show up at the campout with a new, large tent? They have the money for other things. One parent buys her kid a Mountain Dew at a convenience mart every week on the way to scouts. I'm having a hard time understanding why they can't pay a fee if they choose not to sell popcorn.

 

Ok, so much for my perspective. I am working on being kind and finding ways to work with people who don't have the means to pay. I appreciate the help I am getting here.

 

 

 

[Eagle92]

CPA,

every family is different. I've learned a long time ago that you never judge a book by its cover. But I also know how it can feel when you do something for someone in need, and see all kinds of expensive stuff.

 

Things are tight in my family right now, and I may not be doign as much scouting activities as i use to. But I was able to go to the USS YORKTOWN at $80/ person b/c I used birthday money. It was a special trip for my son and I. Also I take the kids to get ice cream periodically as a reward for reading a certain number of books. It's not much, but it a little something. Sometimes you need the little somethings like a special drink or ice cream every now and then.

 

But I do know it's frustrating when you see someone you are supporting, and they have top of the line electronics. Did a service project during HS in which we dropped off several bags of food at Thanksgiving to a family in need. Went into the house, and they had a top of the line TV, stereo equipment, video games, etc.

[moosetracker]

Both parents with excuses sound flimsy to me for a show 'n sell.

 

If you have show-n-sell slots the parent of the two cubs should not get off with not knowing who to sell to. Our kid sold door to door, but we live in a nice neighborhood, and we always went with him. I know in some neighborhoods that is not possible parents or no parents. But a show 'n sell you just sell to strangers who are walking out of the store.

 

The popcorn allergy too, seems he could do something at a show 'n sell.. Just don't have him handeling the merchandise but he can talk to people, get their attention and answer questions. Unless he has allergies so severe he can't even walk into any store or convient mart that sells a candy bar with peanuts in it.

 

Personally though, that was one thing I was glad my son no longer had to participate in. The price was a little high but reasonable for a fundraiser when he was a cub scout. The prices have become unreasonable, and the quality and quanity of the merchandise has gone down over the years.. It made every year increasing harder to sell the stuff.

[CPAMom]

I can totally relate that some parents don't want to be bothered with popcorn. Fine. Pay the money and move on. Or come up with some other way to fund it. I don't look down on these parents for not selling or doing a piddlin' amount. But their kids are costing us money when they could be footing the bill.

 

As for the kid with peanut allergies - They are severe. However, he attends school and eats at a separate table for kids with peanut allergies. His parents make plenty of money, so it makes sense to me for them to pay the fee.

 

 

[evmori]

Either find a different fundraiser or who do I give my $65 check to?

[CPAMom]

Evmori - Honestly, it would be easier on the unpaid leaders if everyone just paid the $65. Not everyone can do that, so here we go into popcorn season.

 

[Pack212Scouter]

Many of you are forgetting the other side of Scouting. YOUR COUNCIL needs the popcorn fundraiser. Friends of Scouting contributions are down...United Way contributions to Scouting are down. Part of the fundraising (roughly half of the 70% that goes to local scouting) goes to support council. Unless you plan on raising dues to match, your council needs your unit to sell so that they can maintain the Scout camps, provide you with rank badges, scholarship some BSA dues, pay their limited staff, provide materials for roundups, and a myriad of other things. The popcorn fundraiser is NOT just for your unit!(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

[moosetracker]

CPA Mom - agree, if they want to write a check for not selling that is fine, I was only commenting on the fact the Pack shouldn't have to foot the bill due to these excuses.

 

I understand the council is linked to Popcorn take, that does not improve the products value or ease to sell it. As the products value goes down and the price goes up, they too will receive less and less either because units can't sell the stuff though they try, or because units find a better fund-raiser. Message to BSA National is "Your fund-raising product is in serious trouble. Change vendors, or change product or do something".. And if National doesn't listen then they loose.

 

The best seller years ago was the small $5 pack. The bigger pack was more value, but $5 was something most people would consider a worthwhile donation to Boyscouts. We would sell 100 of them.. $12 is not what people consider a worthwhile donation, so what do they do? They donate $1 or $5 and don't buy the product. So now we sell 3 $12 packs rather then 100 $5 packs, and receive $100 in donations. The unit will still do ok.. The council will only get a percentage of the 3 packs of popcorn sold.. Any way you look at it Council will loose if the trend of popcorn continues.

 

Girl scout cookies are still affordable to buy 1 or 2 boxes whether you like the product or not just to donate to Girl scouts. Thin mints still seem a good value, but for most of them, there are a small amount of cookies in the box.. Doesn't matter, the price of the product is small enough to consider it a donation to a good cause.

Also the products quality of the classics hasn't deteriorated either. Don't know about the quality of the new varieties they try, I tend to stay with the classics.

[evmori]

Council may need popcorn sales but the product is overpriced. There are hundreds of other fundraisers for a unit that are priced better and sell better.

[Pack212Scouter]

Depends what you see as overpriced. For instance it is a fundraiser...70% goes to local scouting. So out of a $10 box only $3 is actual cost back to the company. That is actually less than a box of popcorn at WalMart. I used to think that a $5 box would be nice but have changed my mind recently. We have had no issues selling the product. In fact, out unit ran out of Show and Sell and we wish we had more. Just like Girl Scout cookies, it's more of a donation. Most people will give a $10 donation. I don't know why your council has $12 items. First of all, $10 is an easier sell in most people's minds. Secondly, it makes accounting and change more difficult. All of the items in our council are in $5 increments.