Do I need to complete a local tour permit for a den field trip?

[AlamanceScouter]

The policy states, as I understand it, that the Local Tour Permit is required for Pack trips of less than 500 miles.

 

If my den has a field trip to....let's say the fire station.....and I have the parents just bring the boys to the station rather than the regular meeting place.....do I need to complete a Local Tour Permit?

[Scoutfish]

WEll, the local tour permit application doesn't break it down to just a meeting. It only goes as low as a 1 day event.

 

Now, I may be wrong, but technically, this would just be a meeting at the fire station, not a trip to a fire station. Just the same as when the parenst bring their kids to the CO.

 

Almost every part of the form is based on traveling to "X" as a group, even if hiking their.

The back side concerns pretty much driver and insurance info.

 

But, if you want to be safe and say you have your bases covered...fill one out anyways. It can't hurt.

 

Plus, your council will tell you at that time with certainty wether or not it is needed.

[AlamanceScouter]

Thanks Scoutfish.

[Eagle92]

Sounds silly, but I fill one out every time I do something.

[bbender]

A short Den Trip? The Guide to Safe Scouting says probably not required.

 

Technically, because the actual policy on local tour permits isn't absolute, and has lots of Council by Council variation, the only hard and fast rule is that a local Tour Permit is required for trips under 500 miles except for when a Tour Permit is not required. Yes, that is confusing, but accurate because of the many exceptions.

 

For example, note that the Guide to Safe Scouting (sort of) specifically says "Most short, in-town den trips of a few hours do not require a tour permit; however, it is recommended that dens obtain permission slips from parents." Because it says "most" that sounds like the rule is that a Tour Permit is not required unless it is required. Likely reasons for it being required would probably boil down to (1) your Local Council has issued a rule that any trip away from a regular meeting place requires a Tour Permit, or (2) whoever you meet at your destination knows something about Tour Permits and believes that you should have one and makes you produce it.

 

The Guide to Safe Scouting also says "If a unit plans a trip within 500 miles of the home base, it is important that the unit obtain a local tour permit. A national tour permit is required for trips in excess of 500 miles from home or outside the continental United States."

-- Note that for over 500 miles, the term is "required".

-- For under 500 miles, the term is "important".

 

Filed Tour Permit or not, probably more important is: does the Unit actually follow the "planning checklist" elements of the Tour Permit, like Trained Leaders, Transportation Rules, Pledge of Performance. Or did they just get the paper and put it in the Leader's Folder?

 

This is sort of noted in this language from that section: "Tour permits have become recognized by national parks, military institutions, and other organizations as proof that a unit activity has been well planned and organized and is under capable and qualified leadership. These organizations may require the tour permit for entry."

-- Filed permit or not, following the Planning Checklist rules is key.

 

YMMV. Or your Council's mileage or the mileage of your destination may vary.

[moosetracker]

It's been a while & policy does change, but when we did a tour permit anywhere even in town, or CO required it. Our Council kept advising us we did not need to do one for an event in town. We had to tell them over & over, maybe they didn't but our CO did.. After a while they stopped trying to correct us.

 

So unless policy has changed, the tour permit is not required in town.

 

But the tour permit for 500 miles or over is not the local tour permit. You do have to do a local tour permit for anything out side of your town, and if 500 miles or over then the tour permit you are looking at. That permit has a few stricter policies on it, such as all adults going need their YPT no further out then 1 year rather then the 2 year normal policy.

 

Like everyone says though a tour permit for everything is the safest bet. Our CO wants to make sure insurance is covered.. Period..

[ScoutNut]

A Local Tour Permit is something that councils are given discretion in creating rules specific to themselves.

 

In other words, while a Local Tour Permit is required by BSA National for trips under 500 miles, a council has the ability to state WHICH trips under 500 miles THEY do, and do not, require a Tour Permit for. Councils are all over the place on when they actually require a Local Tour Permit to be filed.

 

Contact the person at your council in charge of approving Tour Permits to get the correct rules for YOUR specific council.

 

 

[frankpalazzi]

Ask your council office!! In ours, no tour permit is required for any outing within town limits. Beyond that, we file.

[ghermanno]

As stated, ask your Council. In a previous Council that I was in, the terminology used was: "If it is NOT in your regular Den/Pack/Troop meeting area, file a Tour Permit to be safe!"

 

Others have other rules.

 

YiS,

 

Rick

[click23]

"A Local Tour Permit is something that councils are given discretion in creating rules specific to themselves. "

 

I am not too sure about this. As others have quoted:

 

"If a unit plans a trip within 500 miles of the home base, it is important that the unit obtain a local tour permit. A national tour permit is required for trips in excess of 500 miles from home or outside the continental United States."

 

But what you don't see here is the text quoted is in bold in the G2SS, which means "Bold type throughout the Guide to Safe Scouting denotes BSA rules and policies."

 

I believe that councils get tired of all of the paperwork, so they just say if it is this or that type of activity, then no tour permit is required.

[ScoutNut]

Per the Tour Permit FAQ's on the Scouting Safely pages at the BSA National Website -

 

Q. When do I need to complete a tour permit ?

A. Your local council determines when a tour permit is required for trips under 500 miles or local activity. However, the tour permit is an excellent planning tool that should be included in preparation for all activities, even those not requiring it. It guides a tour leader through itineraries, travel arrangement, two-deep leadership, qualifications of supervision, and transportation.

 

From the Cub Scout Outdoor Program Guidelines -

 

"File a local tour permit if necessary. Check with your local council on its policies regarding field trips in your council"

 

There are councils who do not require a Local Tour Permit if you are staying within the boundaries of your District. There are other councils who do not require it as long as you stay in your local community. Then there are those council who require a Tour Permit every time a unit leaves it's meeting place.

 

As I suggested, your best bet to get the correct information for YOUR COUNCIL, is to call your local council Service Center, and speak to the person whose job it is to approve Tour Permits.

 

 

 

[click23]

ScoutNut, once again we have found another example scouting policies that contradict each other.

 

My council has went from no permit required for district or council activities, to if a unit is anywhere other than its normal meeting place it must have a tour permit, needless to say this is causing a headache, and a bunch of questions:

 

What if parents drive only their own kids do they need to be listed as drivers on the tour permit?

What if a parent driving only their own kid does not comply with the insurance requirement do we have to tell them they cannot attend?

What if a troop has a service project in town and older boys drive to it, just like they do regular troop meetings, do they have to be listed as drivers?

etc, etc, etc

 

And yes we are addressing these questions with the council.