Den Camping.........But not really?

[Eagle92]

Gotta,

PACKS can camp all they want. Heck if the pack wants to schedule 3 trips in 5 weeks, they can do it. BUT dens can't.

 

And family camping is allowed at council events without a pack. Lucky for me as at the last campout, only my den, 1 TC, and 1 Webelos showed up.

 

One reasons I was told, and the person could be wrong, is that by having a pack do the camping, more resources are available: tents, cooking supplies, coolers, etc. Trust me organizing a den campout is a lot harder than a pack one. As I stated above, the council's family campout turned into a den one for me with no one else from my pack attending except mentioned above ( probably b/c that was our 3rd trip in 5 weeks, and the Webelos had a campout the following week). We had 0 support as no one form the pack b/c none of the leaders except me and my ADL were attending: no coolers, stoves, tarps, misc. supplies, nothing.

[Eagle92]

Oak,

For got to add Den camping, exempting Webelos Cub Scout dens.

[moosetracker]

Wish I could see the G2SS to see exactly how this is phrased. My G2ss got washed out on the last camping trip, and our Scout store has been out of them on my last 2 visits.

 

I know for sure paintball & bungee jumping are O-U-T out.. But Then if the book has in bold

 

From the Guide to Safe Scouting in BOLD print (that means it is a BSA rule) -

 

"Overnight camping by Tiger, Wolf, and Bear Cub Scout dens as dens is not approved and certificates of liability insurance will not be provided by the Boy Scouts of America."

 

It kindof sounds like unapproved so that too may fall under the

if you do an unapproved activity with your unit and an accident happens, BSA insurance will not cover it.

 

I would also think that with family camping, you can't have it both ways.. You can't do "family camping" to get around having no one BALOO Trained and do no tour permit. And if someone sues you, use this for your arguement then when the courts pounce on you for it truely being a Pack campout.. Turn and expect protection under the BSA insurance. But, then since camping is not an unapproved activity.. Who knows. Still to me it sure proves you were not mis-interpreting the rules, and knew you were not following them. So to my interpretation that would be an unapproved activity.

 

Personally I would not risk if my interpretation was ok though very shady. I would try for a well meaning up-front interpretation to cover my butt. Still could be wrong with BSA wording being not so straight forward. But I would not risk attempting den camping, nor family camping.. After all BALOO is more then they offered us when my son was in Cub scouts.

 

I am returning to the Pack for about a year, but I doubt this issue will come up. The first event I am invited to in this Pack is the BALOO training in which 6 adult leaders of the Pack besides me are getting trained.

[Eagle92]

Moose,

The family camping mentioned in the G2SS refers to councils offering camping trip where a pack doesn't have to go, but any member, and their family can. Examples include cub weekends on council properties, or council approved properties in a few cases. usually the campout is run on the counsil level , but sometimes on the district one if the district is large enough.

[SSScout]

 

 

http://www.boyscouts-ncac.org/openrosters/DocDownload.asp?orgkey=1933&id=33083

 

It really is all inclusive. The "Cub Scout Outdoor Program Guidelines for 2007" is the quotable source. Print it out and point fingers at will.

[ScoutNut]

The Guide to Safe Scouting - Online version (which is identical to the current printed version) -

 

http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Home/HealthandSafety/GSS/toc.aspx

 

BSA National on it's insurance -

 

http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Home/HealthandSafety/Alerts/Insurance.aspx

 

The 2009 version of BSA's Cub Scout Outdoor Program Guidelines -

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/510-631.pdf

 

I think that BSA does a good job of making it perfectly clear that ONLY Webelos dens are allowed to camp alone as a den. I think they also do a good job of making it perfectly clear that BSA insurance covers ONLY official Scouting activities, and that Tiger, Wolf, and Bear dens, camping as a den, is NOT an official Scouting activity, and will NOT be covered by BSA liability insurance.

 

People can, and will, spin, and manipulate, this any way they want, to achieve the results they want. There is not a darn thing we can do that will change that, and I don't see any point in trying past the "show me in writing" part. Folks will do what they want to do regardless.

 

[SSScout]

Thanks, S/N, I couldn't get the National source to work...

[Eagle92]

one thing to remember, since den camping is not approved, anything happens on a den campout, excepting Webelos dens of course, will not be covered by BSA insurance.