Living Target Restriction

[JoeBob]

Made you look!

 

An informational blurb about Archery at Day Camp sent out to parents states:

 

"BSA policies prohibit the use of targets resembling any living thing."

 

I don't recall this topic ever coming up during certification. Myth or fact? Can someone point me towards a citation?

 

Thanks,

JoeBob

[Eagle92]

yep it's written somewhere in BSA literature, will look for it when I'm home. So no humans, animals, humanoids, aliens, or cyborgs, i.e. teh Borg and General Greiveous targets can be used.

 

But you can use battledroids, droidekas, and magnaguard targets

[ScoutNut]

It is in the Guide to Safe Scouting, which every BSA leader should have available, and be familiar with.

 

Look under "Unauthorized and Restricted Activities".

 

[JoeBob]

ScoutNut:

Thanks for the reference, but nope.

 

Guide to Safe Scouting - Unauthorized Activities:

"Scout units may plan or participate in paintball, laser tag or similar events where participants shoot at targets that are neither living nor human representations."

That keeps Scouts from shooting at Osama bin Laden faces; but it doesn't read to keep Scouts from shooting at Bear, Turkey, or Deer targets. A paper deer is neither living nor a human representation.

 

Anybody else?

[ScoutNut]

"Hunting is not an authorized Cub Scout or Boy Scout activity."

 

Obviously your council decided that hunting paper targets of deer is also not authorized.

 

 

[CalicoPenn]

It may be a restriction that applies to summer camps, day camps and/or council/national activities only and not to Troop, Team and Crew shoots (Packs aren't allowed to have their own shoots). If that's the case, then it won't be a restriction in G2SS.

 

Instead, it may be a restriction mentioned in the Camp Program and Property Management manual, which is the manual for long-term camp management.

 

It's been a long time since I went to National Camp School (for Cub Scout Day Camps) but in the dim recesses of my memory, I seem to remember a restriction on using targets that depicted humans or animals (or for that matter trees) for the BB gun and Archery ranges and that the rationale is that we were teaching safe AND responsible shooting, and shooting at people, animals and trees was not responsible shooting. But that's my memory and not a document talking.

 

I don't have a copy of Camp Program and Property Management, but I'm guessing someone on the forum does.

[shortridge]

Complete myth.

 

Camp Program and Property Management (2007 printing) notes: "Animal target faces are most exciting for Scout and Venturer use. These are available through the Supply Division." It also suggests that handicraft areas "make animal cutouts for gun and bow targets."

 

http://srbsa.org/public/services/program/docs/2008/20-920-camp-prog-prop-mgmt-2007.pdf

 

Many thanks to the former Southern Region folks for posting this.

[ScoutNut]

From "Shooting Sports for Cub Scouting" no 13-550 2002 printing -

 

For Archery - "The 48-inch standard target face is recommended for use on outdoor ranges." "The target is made up of five concentric color zones. Each zone is divided by a thin line into two scoring zones of equal width."

 

Targets for Archery games and activities - "36-inch, 4-color face" "18-inch/12-inch black and white face" "three rows of three balloons on a target mat" "Place a strip of l-inch masking tape over the target face from top to bottom" "shoot at a monster face attached or painted on a one-gallon plastic bottle, suspended with shock card within a tire" "a barrel that is placed as the bull's-eye of a horizontal target on the ground. Outer rings may be formed with chalk, string, circles of small pennants, etc., at five-feet intervals from the barrel" "A picture of an insect is glued to a piece of plywood 12 inches square. The plywood is fastened so that it will pivot freely around a centered bar set from post to post" "shoot at bells through the open end of swinging tires" "A scaled-down goalpost is erected behind a four-foot high canvas sheet"

 

 

Fun Target Activities for BB's - "Make 8 1/2-by-1l-inch targets with several squares on each" "Place dots on a target, then shoot at the back side of the target" "Suspend table tennis balls in a box" "Create a target by taping round candy to the back of a box" "Set up balloons as targets" "Set up crackers as targets" "Place three rows of three balloons on a target mat"

 

And finally, from the "Other Shooting Sports" section -

 

"Targets may be made similar to those for archery and BB gun shooting. Creative targets may also be made that relate to the camp theme. TARGETS SHOULD NOT LOOK LIKE HUMANS OR ANIMALS." (EMPHASIS is mine)

 

So, NOT A MYTH at all.

 

While BSA has no problem with insects, or monsters, being used as targets, they do seem to draw the line at animals.

[shortridge]

ScoutNut -

 

The distinction is between Cubs and Boy Scouts/Venturing. Animal targets are OK for the latter, not OK for the former.

 

And even when it comes to Cubs, insects are certainly "living things"!

 

So the blanket statement that JoeBob presented is, in fact, a myth.

 

"BSA policies" clearly *do not* prohibit the use of targets resembling any living thing.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

[ScoutNut]

JoeBob was specifically referring to "Archery at Day Camp". That is Cub, not Boy, Scouts.

 

I will grant that his council/district has unduly broadened the range to "any living thing", when BSA clearly allows Cubs to shoot at images of insects and monsters.

[shortridge]

... which is why it's important to make that distinction between Cubs and Boy Scouts/Venturers. Different strokes for different folks. As written, the "policy" that JoeBob's folks put out is indeed a myth. Even when applied solely to Cubs, not the entire "BSA," it's clearly incorrect, as you've demonstrated.

 

Question, though: Where would vampires and zombies fall on the living/monster scale? I mean, they're technically undead humans, aren't they?

[evmori]

Question, though: Where would vampires and zombies fall on the living/monster scale? I mean, they're technically undead humans, aren't they?

 

They are undead but they are not living ergo fire away!

[packsaddle]

From JoeBob's post:

Guide to Safe Scouting - Unauthorized Activities:

"Scout units may plan or participate in paintball, laser tag or similar events where participants shoot at targets that are neither living nor human representations."

 

I read this a couple of times and as usual, it is ambiguous...unless you think about the logic of the statement. The ambiguity comes from the "neither living nor human representations" part. If the word 'living' was meant to modify the noun, 'representations', then the target could not be a representation of anything living, even a plant! (BTW, insects are animals)

However, if this was the case, why throw in the 'human' modifier - it is redundant and not necessary. Humans are living, therefore this further admonition is not necessary.

To make this logical, however, one merely needs to add the word 'target' after living. It removes the ambiguity and allows the use of a cut-out of any animal to be used as long as it's not a human representation. In this form it makes sense. You don't shoot at the actual potted plant, just a photo of it. And not even a photo of Bin Laden.

[ntrog8r]

Since when are insects NOT animals? Kingdom Animalia still includes insects.

 

I could guess by ANIMAL it means MAMMALS - but then we could shoot targets that look like tuna, jellyfish, sharks, snakes, toads, spiders, crabs, leeches, and birds... The reference quoted also states "should not" vice "will (or must) not" and while splitting hairs is an important distinction. Also the G2SS quote seems to disallow using targets that represent living things, at least to me. After all, bear, deer, and turkey targets would be representing living things - whether they are paper, plastic, or wood seems to be irrelevant. However it does seem to restrict activities such as paintball and laser tag specifically and not address ranges at camp.

 

JoeBob, Since your Council put this out I would ask them for the reference and then you can post it here for the rest of us. I'm pretty interested in the answer. As a guy who loves to shoot and hunt I may have inadvertantly violated this myself.

[FScouter]

The rifle range at Philmont Scout Ranch uses plate steel animal targets.