stressbaby Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 My son cross over into a new Troop this year. The Troop was founded in January by a very enthusiastic Scouter with two boys in Scouts and lots of experience. Unfortunately, he is an autocrat and a micromanager. And now I have learned of several instances of un-Scoutmaster-like behaviors. (Example one of about a dozen...the SM told a Scout's PL not to call a Scout back to inform him of meeting and campout dates and times, effectively eliminating him from the Troop without any discussion with the Committee or the Scouts parents.) The SM has told me that while the Committee is responsible for adult leaders and their training in most instances, and is responsible for the selection of the SM in most cases, the one exception is when the SM is the founder of a Troop. When the SM is the founder of the Troop, he says, the SM essentially has the final say in things. Now, maybe I missed that paragraph, but I can't find any of this in the SM Handbook or the Committee Guidebook. If this is true, there is no point in working this problem out internally. Question: has anyone heard of a policy that gives a founding SM any special priviledge when it comes to organizing and running Troop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 stressbaby, Welcome! A founding SM is no different than any other SM. The Troop must function according to the rules & regs the BSA has in place. Has this SM been through training? If not, I suggest he get there. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 Wait a minute, thats the Charter Scoutmaster clause he gets to do anything he wants, its right here in the scoutmaster handbook page, page, page..... Oh wait a minute, its not here, its not anywhere, a SM is SM is SM whether the first or hundred and first, the rules are the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutParent Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 Are there other troops in your area? I would suggest having your son visit some of the other troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abraiu Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 It is the "What came first? The Chicken or the Egg" or "What came first the Scoutmaster or the Committee?" In a lot of new troop start ups that sometimes is the case. The Charting organization should be informed of the BSA policy that the COR (Chartered organization Represenative)has a finial ruling and must also approve of the leadership, as the committee. The committee is responsible for locating persons of good stature, ethics,and of moral character. There is no policy reguarding the founding scoutmaster. The COR who signed the paper work (he did sign the paper work?) either did not know, they are good frieds (which is hard to make any changes) or was mis-informed about how BSA works. It might be worth a meeting with the COR to find out where they stand and just what their response would be, before trying to really change this. As Ed said you may want to inquire if the Scoutmaster is trained, Scoutmaster Fundimentals...New Leader Essentials Taining...Woodbadge...what's his back ground? Have him show where his information is coming from...this is an old problem revisited. If he still insists, contact your District Ex. As far as eliminating the scout from the troop if the scout has registured with BSA and is paid current and has not had some grivious infraction against him...he's there or free to transfere to any other troop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stressbaby Posted September 8, 2002 Author Share Posted September 8, 2002 The SM says he is trained, including Woodbadge. Sounds like the COR is the person internally to go to first. BTW, we also learned that the New Scout Patrol cannot meet without either the SPL, SM, or Troop Guide. The SPL is SM's older son (13 years old) and the Troop Guide is the SM's younger son (10 years, 10 months old). I guess I missed that page in the Handbook as well. Thanks, folks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted September 8, 2002 Share Posted September 8, 2002 OK - I am confused. What, exactly, is a "founding" SM. If that means that he is simply the first SM this Troop has had, then that doesn't mean a darn thing. Who is your Charter Organization? Is your SM also your Charter Org Representative? Is he the Institutional Head of the Charter Org? Your Charter Org owns your Troop and these last 2 people, COR & IH, are the ones who have final say over the Troop leadership. NOT the SM! If your SM is indeed either the COR or IH, then that is a very bad situation and I would quickly look for a new Troop. If not, I would have a heart to heart talk with your COR about your questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoreaScouter Posted September 8, 2002 Share Posted September 8, 2002 I just conducted Troop JLT for the 3rd time today. Your SM sounds like the "big boss" model BSA warns us away from. We've all seen the type, and you've got one. Do you have a unit commissioner? If not, ask your District to assign one. With your luck though, it'll probably be your SM's brother-in-law... KS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stressbaby Posted September 8, 2002 Author Share Posted September 8, 2002 Thanks for the advice. Scoutnut - I suppose we both know that BSA has no such official critter known as the "founding SM". This was the term used by the SM. I don't know who the COR is but I will find out. KoreaScouter - I also do not know who our unit commissioner is or if we even have one yet. I'll find this out as well. I'm hearing you say that if we try to resolve this issue from within, we should start with the COR and/or the Troop Committee. Past the COR, the Unit or District Commissioner and DE would be the ones to speak with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASM7 Posted September 8, 2002 Share Posted September 8, 2002 stressbaby I know from experience that it is very hard to begin a new troop with all young boys and it is almost doomed to fail if the adult leaders do not conform to BSA policies. With a young troop, the youth leadership is probably not in place yet so the adult leaders should act as a patrol to set the example. 10 years old is too young to be a Troop Guide. It should be an experienced scout. You can't get around the young SPL because of the overall age of the scouts. If the SM is trained through Wood Badge, how current is that training? How many ASM's are there? and are they trained? If the troop started in January, all the scouts are probably new unless transferred from another troop. Tell SM to drop the founder title and get with the program. Founder, to me, means an originator of an organization. We all know who BSA founders are. He just helped start a troop and he's going to lose it if he doesn't follow P & P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScouterPaul Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 Hang in there Stressbaby - with hard work on the part of parents such as yourself it will get better. I am in a somewhat similar position. We started our Troop in April when our Webelo 2 crossed over. Our SM wants everything his way even if it goes against BSA Policy or program. Luckily when the SM had the COR approve (sign) the Adult Leader Applications he made me a Committee Member and not an ASM. We have had numerous "discussions" regarding actions that he has taken. Luckily I am a training nut and take every course offered through our Council. I quote from the various resources whenever he pulls something out of his proverbial behind. It is getting better he is attempting to follow the BSA program. My advice is to become a Committee Member (if you are not one already) and to take all the training you can get including the Scoutmaster Specific training. This will allow you to be an informed voice from within. Hang in there and good luck. YIS Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sctmom Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 Stressbaby, I think this troop has some serious problems. No weekly meetings? Ten year old troop guide (who is probably not First Class yet)? "Founding" SM who gets to make all the rules? I recommend you take a look at what your son is getting from this troop. Also, what other troops are in the area. Go back to why you choose this one over others. If there are no other troops, if you have to decide how to get things right (a big effort). My son's troop is not perfect by any means, but the SM is not a dictator. All the adults are working for the same reason -- the boys. I've seen the committee turn to the SM looking for his decision and he states his opinion and then says "I work for YOU, what does the committee think?" The boys choose things they want to do for the next year. The calender is set and posted on the website, so everybody knows when every campout is for the next year. The troop meets weekly, year around. The only thing that might interfere is a major holiday. The boys and safety come first at all times. The adults in our troop may not always agree with each other but try to remember we are adults and remember why we are there. There is enough work to go around for everybody. Everybody tries to help out where they can use their skills the best and leave others to do what they do best. Bottom line --- look for another troop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl 1111 Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 It sounds to me that this Scoutmaster has an "I" problem (I want this, I did that, I'm in charge) and is in the Scouting Program for his own self gratification and not for the boys. Having been a District Commissioner, I cannot stress enough the immediate need for you to do two things. . . 1)Put your son in another troop that is following the Scouting Progam and has all their ducks in a row. Do this before your son is soured on Scouting. 2)Make your concerns known; if you don't know who your Unit or District Commissioner is, call your Council office and ask to speak to the District Executive for your area. There are means available that the Distict Exec. and Commissioner can use to remove a troublesome Scoutmaster. If needs be form a committee, obtain a Charter and start your own Troop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBeado Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 As another person associated with this Troop, I should point out that the Scouts (those that are not dropped from the "to call" list) seem to all be having a good time and are learning a lot. The SM devotes a TON of time to the Troop. He works with the scouts incessently on advancement and skills. He PERSONALLY signs off on every advancement requirement (nobody else is authorized to sign that a boy has passed a requirement). As far as the Scouts are concerned, there is no major problem. Theyu are learning and having fun. The problem is all behind the scenes. In the few months that I have been associated with the troop I know of several instances where a scout was dropped from the Troop by being dropped from the "to call" list, thus never finding out about Troop events. Another scout's parent was told that he wasn't a good fit in this troop and should go elsewhere. At least one committee member has been unilaterally dropped from the committee (again, by just dropping them from the call list). The SM is the dominant force in committee meetings (one of the other major voices is his spouse). So the problem is that Scouts in his favor seem to be learning a lot and enjoying themselves, but if you fall out of favor, all of a sudden you do not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eisely Posted September 12, 2002 Share Posted September 12, 2002 This SM may be doing very well with the favored few, but he is doing a great disservice to those whom he drops (probably in violation of BSA policy since he doesn't have the unilateral authority to do this) without even telling them. He at least owes people, boh scouts and adults, the courtesy of telling them he wants them out and facilitating a transfer. It is great that he gives his time to the favored few, but what about the unfavored many? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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