Advancing into Boy Scouts

[bearabledust]

I spun this message off as to not hijack the last one.

 

We have a boy who just finished his bear rank and next year will be starting Webelo I. He started with scouts as a 6 year old wolf (he skipped the 1st grade and went right into second). When he finishes 5th grade he will only be 9, will he still be allowed to cross over into Boy Scouts with the rest of his den? Or will he have to "sit out" untill he reaches the 10 year old age limit?

 

Now I don't know if his intentions are to continue after cubs or not, I can only assume that he will, but as a new ACM and friend of his family I would like to make sure they are prepared for any of the possiblities.

 

Thanks.

[Snow_White]

"Boy Scouting, one of the traditional membership divisions of the BSA, is available to boys who have earned the Arrow of Light Award and are at least 10 years old or have completed the fifth grade and are at least 10, or who are 11, but not yet 18 years old."

 

http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Home/BoyScouts.aspx

 

Sounds like he has to wait until he turns 10, even if he has finished the fifth grade.

[ScoutNut]

From the BSA Youth Application -

 

"Your son can be a Scout if he has completed the fifth grade and is at least 10 years old or is age 11 or has earned the

Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but has not reached age 18."

 

 

[Snow_White]

Can't figure out how to edit a post when I submit before I was really done thinking...

 

Anyway, I'm glad that you are looking into this in advance and making sure the family understands. I've seen a some hurt feelings, upset scouts, and irate parents when these kinds of issues come to light at the last minute.

 

In some cases, the troop will allow the scout, along with a responsible parent, to visit and participate in some troop activities, although the scout cannot earn any advancement.

 

I hope that this situation does not sour the family on Scouting and that the boy will choose to join a troop as soon as he meets the requirements.

[Lisabob]

What month is his birthday in? If you do your cross-over for most of the Webelos IIs in March and his 10th birthday is in May or June, that's not a big gap to work with and there may be some flexible solutions. If he doesn't turn 10 until September or October of his 6th grade year, it becomes a little more challenging due to the longer time frame where he isn't a cub and isn't formally a boy scout. Either way, the BSA rule is that a boy has to be at least 10 to be a boy scout, no matter what.

 

You'll also want to look at summer camp options for the summer after 5th grade. Most troops want their new scouts to attend camp, and it tends to solidify the boys' sense of identity as part of the troop (no longer the newbies). This boy could not attend camp if he doesn't turn 10 until later.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[moosetracker]

Ok, I have found my council to be odd in many ways from other councils. So you can't take my word for this, that if my council did this, so should yours.

 

It worked out that my son crossed over in March from cubscouts to boyscouts at the age of 9, he was 10 on September 28th . We saw the same info and panicked.. Not only was he crossing over at 9, he was also one class grade short of the posted age.

 

We were assured that since he had earned his arrow of light all would be fine. He crossed over and earned boyscout, tenderfoot and had alot of rank advancement done for 2nd & 1st class before he ever turned 10.. He even went to BS camp and earned 3 merit badges that summer, before his birthday that Fall.. (But then he had completed 5th grade, so then maybe he was legit..)

 

How did he get into this position.. Our date for kids to be accepted to 1st grade was September 30th. He made the age cutoff by 2 days. He joined cubscouts in first grade. Because he needed time to mature, he was held back in the 2nd grade, but the belief was not to have him repeat that cub scout rank, but to continue advancing with the den he had started out with..

 

So he made BS at age 9 and with grade 5 uncompleted...

 

Now at 19 he is the youngest person working at the district level on the Eagle board, He is working in the troop committee as Outdoor Leader and attends all committee meetings and votes (though voting is suppose to be only when you are 21.) And he is thinking of taking on the position of Distict Web Master...

 

The troop & council will need to decide if they want to let him pass with the arrow of light award, or hold him to age/grade.

 

 

[Lisabob]

moose - the rules have been updated in the last three or four years to absolutely require that a boy be 10, even if he has AoL. I think that there was a period of time prior to that change when it was possible to join with AoL, even if a boy wasn't yet 10. Since you mention your son is now 19, he may have been covered by different rules than those currently in place.

 

That said, I know some folks who have gotten a special waiver of the age rule from their council - but I'm not sure how legit that is and I wouldn't recommend it, either.

[moosetracker]

Aha.. That explains it.. I remembered the statement pretty good, but I did think we slipped in with an "or".. yet reading it now I was surprised to see it state it as an "and"..

 

Although our son in the long run exceled in scouts and continues to do so. Putting him in early did cause some problems. He was no longer immature, in fact by then he was very serious and prefered hanging with the adults rather then the kids.. But, he was slower to grasp the skills that were expected of the new scouts, and was not readily accepted by the other scouts.

 

So I will not argue Lisabob's advice.

[Basementdweller]

If he was held back that made him a Second or Third Grade Boy Scout???????

[bearabledust]

Thanks everybody. He has an August birthday, so he will be 9 when he finishes with 5th grade and at the time we usually crossover (either late February or early May depending on when the den is ready).

 

 

[ScoutNut]

That is not so bad. He can stay in the Pack and work on more Activity Badges (Perhaps he will want to earn them all?), and help out the 4th grade Webelos leaders. Then, after summer, when he turns 10, he can join the rest of his friends.

 

 

[Basementdweller]

So explain how this is different than the boy who is in the same den as his brother........ Age appropriate activities is what everyone was quoting. This is absolutely no different in my mind.

 

 

The boy started cubs early for what ever reason and now will be crossing over into BS early. I will be interested to see if the BS resident camp will let him attend at 9 years old.

 

 

I just find it interesting

[Scoutfish]

I agreeing with Basement here: It's the same situation ecept this boy isn't tagging along with an older brother.

 

 

But now, I have to ask( If anybody has an offical answer):

 

Which takes priority - age or grade?

 

You can fail a grade or be advanced a grade.

 

Your age is your age regardless.

 

Arent most activities and ranks based on age appropriateness?

 

So maybe you are extra book smart and advanced a grade, or maybe you had a little trouble and were held back.. But your age is still your age.

[Lisabob]

Like it or not, the cub program is flexible in that a boy who failed (or skipped) a grade can be held back, or promoted, within cubbing. I've known boys (and parents) who have done each of these. It comes down to what is best for the individual boy (or it should, at least). Still, the current age requirement to join boy scouts is absolute. It isn't "be 10 OR be finished with 5th grade OR have AOL." It requires that a boy be at least 10, no matter what else. I do not think many boy scout camps will accept a 9 year old, at least not knowingly. Nor do I think many 9 year olds are ready for boy scout summer camp, but that's a side issue.

 

It *is* different than putting two brothers of different grades into the same den for the parent's convenience. In this scenario the issue is what is easiest for the parent, and not what is best for each boy. It potentially aligns older and younger brothers' interests against each other. Have you noticed that very rarely do you hear of a parent who wants their older boy to repeat a year of cubbing or start a year late (or with a lower age group) so that two brothers can both be in the younger boy's den? Nope - it is always "oh the younger boy can just tag along with his older brother and be part of their den."

 

 

[Basementdweller]

I don't see it as being different.

 

The Pack leaders screwed up and let the boy join too young or let him advance too fast to stay with the correct grade rank correlation.

 

Lisa as you said Cubbing is flexible, so why make the leader and scout repeat Tigers?????

 

You guys need to make up your mind