Putting brothers of different ages in same den...

[Snow_White]

Sounds like you have answered your own question.

 

Over the years, our pack has had many families with 2 sons in different grade levels / different dens, some only a year apart. Have never known of a family to ask for them to be in the same den or come to the same meeting.

[Lisabob]

"Maybe have the younger son to be a Tiger ? but allow him to do meetings with older brother in Wolves ?"

 

There was another thread recently where this had occurred, and it raised a bunch of problems for the pack. I wouldn't recommend it as a solution to your situation.

 

Additionally, it is unfair to the older boy, to the den leader (which might not always be the dad in question), and to the other boys in the den to allow lots and lots of tag-along siblings. Where do you draw the line and say "no, this den is for boys who are actually *in* the den." If you draw no line, then you should expect other parents to start bringing everybody under the sun to their boys' den meetings, too. Siblings, cousins, toddlers, neighbor kids, etc. What's good for this one dad would be disastrous, if everybody did it.

 

(This message has been edited by lisabob)

[Basementdweller]

I always bring enough extra for the siblings to participate.

 

Cub Scouting is Family Scouting.

 

Recruiting future Venture Crew members maybe.

[Lisabob]

Yes, basement, but there still needs to be some limit. It is one thing for occasional siblings, another for this to be a weekly affair. If you, as den leader, start out with 6 boys in the den and pretty soon, you have 10-15 children of various ages and relationships participating every week, then you have many new logistical issues to deal with. Crowd control, extra money for supplies and snacks, age-appropriate activities for a wider group, division of parental and leader attention, etc.

 

In this situation, we're talking about a weekly affair, every meeting. I don't think that is something to be encouraged by pack leadership.

 

 

[Scoutfish]

Yeah, there are som times when it ok.

 

We meet the 2nd and 4th Monday of each month for pack meetings. (The 1st Monday is leaders/committee meetings and the 3rd is pack meetings).

In months we have a 5th Monday, each den can decide wether or not to meet.

 

So that means that every now and then, our Bear den might have a Tiger Cub, a Wolf or a webelos scout hanging out.

 

Sometimes we use them as a "Leader's helper" and they get to help pass out activity material. Sometimes they participate in our outdoor activities such as tug-o-war or whatever we are doing.

 

At our last den meeting before summer break, we had a Wolf hang out and eat hot dogs and smores with us.

 

But that's different than having that older or younger kid at EVERY meeting as a participant.

 

The kid might not be disrupting and might not care about the age difference. There's no doubt the dad doesn't care, but in the long run..the kid is getting screwed because BSA won't recognize any advancement or rank work due to age discepancies.

[Lisabob]

"BSA won't recognize any advancement or rank work due to age discepancies. "

 

I think this is too strong a statement. At the cub level, the BSA is not very particular. I think it is highly unlikely that anything related to advancement in cub scouting would be flagged in scoutnet, unless maybe someone tried to record ranks being earned out of order (Bear before Bobcat, for example, or AoL without Webelos).

 

Boy scouting is a different matter. There, dates can matter a great deal.

 

 

 

 

 

[kari_cardi]

In my experience, not allowing siblings in Tiger meetings can be a hardship for the family thanks to the adult partner requirement. And also in my experience, accommodating siblings isn't a big deal, we have a medium size den in a medium size pack and sometimes it is my kid coming along too. But it is important to clearly set expectations. Siblings don't participate in everything, they don't earn advancements, they don't wear uniforms. They also don't fill out an app, pay dues or sell popcorn. Tag-a-long siblings doesn't seem to be as much of a problem in the older dens, as parents can do drop-offs or siblings become old enough to stay home alone, or whatever.

 

[Twocubdad]

There are 100 ways to justify it, but parents do a great disservice to their sons by lumping them together. The boys miss out on one of the great parts of the program -- making new friends, hanging with new and old friends and developing the camraderie within the group.

 

If you're always someone's else's brother, or if you always have your kid brother tagging along, it's not the same, especially for the younger brother. My sons are two years apart. My older son was always the uber-Scout in the pack. I've put a great deal of effort into making sure my younger son's Scouting experience isn't lived in the shadow of his big brother. Attending two different den meetings isn't asking too much. The man has TWO sons. From conception on there should have been a pretty clear understanding he was signing up for twice the work!

 

I understand for many den leaders dealing with a younger child while volunteering for Scous is an issue. It's hard to pay a babysitter to go work for free. But there are ways around that. Many packs have all dens meet at the same time and location. Maybe another parent in the den with a younger child could take both? Ask.

 

From the pack's standpoint, this is a really slippery slope. What do you do with the non-den leader who wants both boys in one den? Are you willing to dump a possibly unruly, immature boy on a den leader? What do you do when the next pair of brothers are two years apart? Three? How about when the little brother is a little sister?

 

Over the years I've seen a number of tag-along siblings, although I've never had anyone ask to officially register the younger brother in the older den. These things never work out. Usually you just burn out the younger boy on Scouting. At worst you have a den leader who is trying to run a den meeting while babysitting the younger son.

 

The good news is that unlike many problems, the solution to this one is fairly easy: FOLLOW THE DANG RULES! Your Cubmaster or Committee Chair needs to spine-up and explain to the den leader why the pack needs to follow the registration requirements and help him find a better solution for his younger son.

[WestCoastScouter]

CLARIFICATION BY ORIGINAL POSTER:

 

It is not an issue of a tag-a-long siblings. We allow them to partiipate in our famlily events, field trips... and we dont forbid - nor do we encourage them to come to Den Meetings. Better to have sister or brother at Den meeting than for boy to miss a meeting.

 

Our issue: The Tiger DL wants his pre-school aged son as a full partisipant with the Den and pack. He wants his preschool son to be given the Tiger Rank Badge, and a Wolf Neckerchief at our end of the year Pack Meeting.

 

 

[Snow_White]

WCS,

 

Just out of curiosity, what is your position in the pack leadership? Are you responsible for making a decision about his situation, or just trying to advise others? (Feel free not to answer if this is too intrusive.)

 

In any event, please let us know the eventual outcome.

[Phibbles]

I have no problem with siblings tagging along at meetings or on trips. But I make it clear to the parents ahead of time that these meetings and trips are for the den's members. It is their year, their program, and I will not allow a sibling to steal any of that thunder from the scouts. It is not fair to them.

 

Having said that, I have never had a problem with a sibling. At meetings they do their own thing in the back of the room. If I need assistance with a game, I might ask one if they would like to help out. But overall they understand they are there to observe only.

 

You need to tell this dad it is not acceptable. As other's have mentioned he is stealing from both his son's their opportunity to socialize and grow with their peer group. That is the foundational reason for doing age specific dens.

 

I would also warn him, he risks buring the younger son out. Our new CM had this problem. Took his younger son to all the older son's events. And just as we asked him to become the CM, his younger son was ready to drop out of scouting all together. He had to put a lot of work into getting the boy to stay in the program.