Large Packs

[Pack212Scouter]

What is the largest traditional (non-soccer) Pack that you have seen in your area?

 

Our Pack rechartered 172 boys this January and we anticipate kicking off this fall with between 180 and 190 boys.

[Basementdweller]

We have one in our area that is 200. May I suggest Splitting the Pack

 

They have a negative impact on scouting in our district. They Do not participate in round table they violate many of BSA rules against bb shooting, Archery, Canoeing, and on and on. They do not participate in District Day camp or any District cub activities. We are Pack 123 you will listen to us because we are big and we represent 10% of the cub scouts in the district.

 

Well let me tell ya

 

I visited them to see what all of the fascination was about. I still don't have a clue. There pack meeting was 2 hours long, the program was handing out awards including belt loops. The boys were BORED. Went to a wolf den meeting where the boys were sharing their Collections. There was 15 boys in the den, 5-10 minutes a piece, it took 2 hours.

 

The CM asked what I thought of HIS organization. So I told him that it was just too big. Of course he didn't like it.

 

In my opinion the optimal number for a Pack is 40-60 youths, two dens at each rank.

 

[infoscouter]

The largest packs in our district are about 100-125 Scouts. Cubmasters struggle with running effective pack meetings, yet resist splitting. Parent seem to like the bigness - don't understand why. I can't imagine that they form relationships with many of the other parents. I think its that they don't have to do any work. There are enough volunteers to run a program, without requiring lots of parental involvement.

[lrsap]

I've read about mega-packs in these forums over the last couple of years, and I've always wondered exactly how they can be run well. I have personally never seen one in person, so I am not being critical of something I have no knowledge. If you are the leader of one of these type packs, how do you make it work?

[frank10]

Pack212Scouter: Do you even get to know all their names?

[Scoutfish]

We doubld in size at the beginning of the year to around 120 scouts total...but we didn't worry as we knew some would drop out.

 

Kinda normal too. Competitions from other activities..some like the roundup, but actually scouting does not appeal to them..sports..Mom and dad can't/ wont commit to taking scouts to meetings ,mom and da who can't understand things cost money, and then you have those who are disillusioned about scouting being a "babysitting and hand out awards just especialy for their precious sweetums" service!

 

So our 120 simmered down to around 75 - 80 scouts.

 

WOW! 200 scouts? I bet collecting dues/ crediting passbook accounts/ planning events is a nightmare and a full time job?

[Pack212Scouter]

Do I know all their names? Not as well as I'd like, but that is more of a function of my abilities than anything else. I have to know someone for a month before I really remember their name. That said, I do know them all.

 

I'm sorry that some of you have such a negative image of large Packs. We can't help but grow, as they keep coming. Sometimes from other Packs because of the quality of our program. Usually because of the beliefs of our CO (as in strong values, etc). Are there challenges? Of course. At times it can be quite a chore. But at the same time our events are second to none. Our size gives us the leverage of numbers when it comes to being able to afford things, not in influence. Events are definitely a challenge though and you have to plan them to keep the boys engaged. Our average Den size is 9-10. I never go over 10 in a Den except by special request and evaluation, and never 15! I have found that one of the reasons that our program thrives is that in a small Pack you may have 3 or 4 REALLY dedicated and good leaders. In our Pack, because so many are involved, we have over a dozen dedicated leaders. This allows more people to work on an event, creating a truely great one.

 

Most of the Packs in our area that have split have usually wound up with the new unit dying out and the boys returning to the original Pack. Our Spring campouts for instance rival the Council resident camps. (And before you get on that, we heavily support the resident camps!) In fact our Pack is one of the greatest assets to our Council. It is quite often us that they call when they need help for an event, such as the Celebrety Pinewood Derby this past fall and a few others. We send a representative to every round table and are very carefull about not violating any rules.

[Greaves]

I don't know the headcount, but a Pack in our district has five tiger dens, and similiar numbers for the other ranks. (five tiger dens just stuck in my mind. that's a lot of first grade boys) I would guess they have around 120 boys, and I'm being conservative.

 

They have very successful fundraisers, and some of our districts most enthusiastic volunteers come from them.

 

I personally prefer our smaller pack of 30 boys, but the families involved in the megapack have a great time.

[Basementdweller]

do you own your own BB guns and Archery equipment????

[WestCoastScouter]

I was in a pack with my older son that had about 80-90 boys. This was considered a LARGE pack in our area. The other packs in our area were about 15-30 boys. We had the reputation of being the "premier" pack, and we knew it.

 

However, let me continue with this story... We were most proud about "being the largest" with the "best events".... but you never heard us use the word "program" or "child involvement". We did not go to roundtable, or council or district events... since we were so big, we did not need the council... They needed us.

 

We were so big that pack meetings were cut down to every 6-8 week, and last 2 hours plus. We also quit giving out awards at pack meetings, instead we just did them en mass 2-3x a year... Events took an enormous amount of planning, and fundraising was like running a small business !!

 

Now.. with my second son, a few years later, we joined one of the smaller packs. About 35-40 boys on average. Wow... what a difference... individual attention to the boys, parent involvement, friendships by boys and families... bonding...

 

IMHO - One dens of 7-9 per age group = 35 to 45 boys is deal. But that is just by opinion... your miles may vary.(This message has been edited by westcoastscouter)

[Pack212Scouter]

No, we don't own our own BB & Archery equipment. There would be little point since it has to (is supposed to) be done at a District or Council event. COULD we hold such an event? Probably as we have several rangemasters in the Pack, but we would actually have to make such a District event and we would rather just support those programs instead of create more. Plus it wouldn't be a Pack event any longer. We hold monthly Pack meetings and play games, sing songs, plus hand out awards at them. We do all this in less than 90 minutes. Of course it's all about efficient planning too. Are large Packs for everyone, I doubt it. But by the same token, they have their place. I see our boys having friendships, they get individual attention as much as I have seen in any Pack in our area, and families bonding all the time, so that isn't an issue.

 

[Basementdweller]

Our large neighboring pack owns their own BB guns, archery equipment, Canoes and camping gear. Yes canoes and they use them on the river. It is impossible to compete with them and we lose boys to them because of it. then you get questions from parents as to why we cannot do the before mentioned events, how do you answer, "well we are following the rules".

 

Sure their program offers more activities but they are violating bsa's guidelines.

 

DE refuses/cannot to do hing about it.

 

 

[Pack212Scouter]

Sorry to hear about that Basementdweller. It is unfortunate that some units violate the rules and that DE's do nothing about it. In truth though, I have seen more small than large Packs violate the rules. I'll admit that in the case of small packs it is usually ignorance, while in large Packs it can be intentional, but the rules get broken just the same.

[Basementdweller]

Small packs are often under the control of a Monarch/Dictator. Husband/CM/CC/Web DL and Wife Treasurer/Secretary/Bear DL, CM brother is ACM/CM/Wolf DL Sister in law den leader/CM/Tiger DL. He does as he please rules or not. Seen it that too. Saw cubs shooting 22's at a private hunting camp, Mentioned to the CM that it wasn't permited, he responded with this isn't a cub camp out but a family camp out where we happen to be working on Cub scout requirements.

 

So you are correct that there are good and bad Pack large and small.