beltloops and pins question

[ScoutNut]

>>"Many BL and pins MUST be earned at Council/District events"

[Sebastian a lady]

I think that the sports and academic program is easy to not understand well. In fact I'll go one further and say that given how difficult it is to get new parents to understand how rank requirements and electives work that I'd be amazed if they got the belt loop program at first glance.

 

I wouldn't require completed worksheets (since that is adding to the requirements). But I wouldn't have any issue with handing them the requirements list and asking them to check of or date what they've done (in a similar way to how they sign and date the book). I think that many parents have the view when they start scouts that if their son has been in swimming or soccer or baseball then of course they've earned the beltloop and pin.

 

As an advancement coordinator, I once had a heated disscussion with a parent who was very upset that her son hadn't received a swimming beltloop when others had. She kept insisting that of course her son had earned because he was on swim team. When I asked about the Safe Swim Defense requirement, so told me that how could he have done that, when she had no idea what that was.

 

I've also been in a pack that had no problem with scouts earning things outside of pack activities (which I think is a nice way of recognizing that for some kids scouting is a big deal and for others it isn't), but that asked that scouts who completed beltloops and pins on their own come to a den meeting and tell the den about what they had done. It was presented not as an extra requirement (ie, not a test), but as a chance for them to talk about something cool that they'd done and maybe get other scouts excited about doing something similar.

[jhankins]

As a den leader, I would go around the table with the boys, asking them each to share one cool thing from the week between our meetings. Some boys showed off their belt loop and pin work, others told about family trips, and some about playing with their friends/dogs/family, etc...

 

It was a great time for the boys to develop common ground and get a chance to share their A&S work if they wanted to.

[ManyHats]

We don't "require" the worksheet be filled out, but encourage them. It helps make it easier for the den leaders to turn in to the advancement chair as well.

 

Some parents don't have access to the internet, so I brought in my binder with all the belt loops and asked them to list ones their scout is interested in working on. Then I printed the worksheets for those belt loops so they could work on them at home.

[Pack212Scouter]

We don't require the worksheets. What our Pack does have though is a policy of no more than 6 belt loops/pins in a month. We feel that in most cases a boy cannot truely earn more than that. They sign this when they join as a policy. If they truely have more than this, they can turn the extra in the next month. This seems to often get rid of the "bling hogs" that just say "it's done" to everything as it is too much effort for them to turn in every month.

[saschuster]

Thanks to everyone for their responses, it definitly helped!

 

I had the chance to talk with this parent who was very upset because the boy did not get his awards at the last meeting. Our trainer/awards person talked a bit with the parent about what and what needed to be done, the parent didn't like his answer and came to me. I explained that for a Tiger to have earned that many pins, while I am sure it is possible, I just didn't see how he had completed so many of them. The reason for the number of pins vs beltloops, soome of the pins were for beltloops he had already earned....note he has around 15 beltloops as a Tiger already which is why the concern from the scouts den leader and our awards person. I let her know I work 2-3 days a week on scout stuff with my son and he is a year ahead and has had to work hard to get the two pins he has so for her son to have earned the number she says, it was very hard for me to understand how without some proof. I mentioned the worksheets and said they werent required but with the number of beltloops and pins in question it would be a good idea just so the parent has something to show and make sure they scout can talk with his leader about what he did to earn them. It wasn't an easy conversation, this parent tend to get very emotional and star crying, which almost happened but I think she left knowing what needs to be done.

[ScoutNut]

A Tiger earned 28 Belt Loops and 19 Pins? This is over half of the available loops, and over half of the pins for the loops.

 

While I feel it is usually the parents call on completion of these things, and would usually say not to interfere, these many loops and pins being earned by a 1st grader is very unrealistic. Most of the work for these had to have been done by the parent. In this case I agree that the parent should have copies of the requirements and make notes on how they were completed.

 

Just for curiosity, what were the 28 loops, and 19 pins?

 

 

[mpaull]

I am the Advancement Coordinator for our Pack and I must say I have learned a great deal from reading the replies in this thread - thanks to all. I will throw in my 2 cents worth with this - at our Graduation night last week, we made an announcement to all the parents regarding doing things over the summer that could qualify for Belt-Loops and Pins (notably Baseball, Cycling, and Soccer, as well as Traveller and a few others). We wanted to make sure the Cub knew he was doing an activity for the BL at the time he did it, rather than have a parent merely fill out a form in September saying "Willie rode his bike this past summer - he gets a BL for that" and so on. Therefore, when the kids go to their AYSO Soccer practice, they pick one as their 'Cub BL practice', and the following week when they play a game, they are playing not only for their team, but for their Cub BL as well. Not only does this give a specific date for the parent to use as the Completion Date in Scout-Track, but will hopefully have the added benefit that, as things slow down a bit for our Dens over the summer months, the kids will still be thinking about Cubs and Cub activities periodically and are then more likely to return in the fall.

 

I'm sorry that this doesn't seem to help with the problem at hand, but I submit it more as a bit of preventative medicine for the future. Needless to say, this doesn't begin to address my apprehension for the fact that any parent can just go in to a Scout Store and pick up whatever Belt Loops and Pins they want their son to have.

[Lisabob]

Yes, a parent could go to the local scout shop and buy belt loops galore. Realistically, few will. And those few? Nothing is going to stop them from making sure their son "gets his."

 

The belt loops can get ridiculous. On the other hand, some kids really enjoy earning them. I guess if I had it to do over as a DL, I'd have a fairly no-nonsense talk with parents about this early in the year. Tell them: belt loops are fun, but don't over-do a good thing. Let your kid lead the way here so that they have meaning for him and he doesn't come to resent being pushed. And know that, as a Webelos scout, he'll need to earn (or re-earn) certain ones so you might just want to hold off. Also, if you will do some as a den, let parents know in advance so they aren't chomping at the bit for junior to "get" those.

 

Or, do what some packs do, and set a clear threshold for how many beltloops per month or year the pack will purchase. Those things can eat up an advancement budget!

 

 

[Greaves]

mpaull: "doing things over the summer that could qualify for Belt-Loops and Pins (notably Baseball, Cycling, and Soccer, as well as Traveller and a few others"

 

Traveller is a Webelos Activity Pin, not part of the belt loops & pins Cub Scouts Academics and Sports Program.

[AnaMaria]

Family Traveler is one of the new additions to the belt loops and pins.

[ManyHats]

"Family Travel" is one of the new belt loops.

[mpaull]

Sorry Greaves - the Family Travel Loop is indeed what I meant, and I'm sorry abbreviating it led to some confusion. In a broader sense though, what do you think of the idea to encourage a Cub focus at non-Cub events - like an AYSO (American Youth Soccer Organisation) practice and game or our own LOYAL (Lake Ontario Youth Athletic League) baseball events?

[Lisabob]

In general - I think you don't need to encourage this. Let them enjoy an array of activities, not all related to "earning" something for scouts. When everything a kid does winds up being connected to scouts by the parents, the kid may come to resent scouts in general and scout advancement in particular, for "taking over" his life. If they want to, fine - but if not, don't push it, even when the overlap seems obvious to you.

[Greaves]

Mpual, no need to apologize. I forgot the new loops. (I'm a WDL, and have spent A LOT of time explaining "this is this, that is that" to parents, Scout Shop ppl, and the Cubmaster. The den earned Aquanaut, Swimmin BL & pin at WRC last summer. no one believed me when I said they should get both pins. "No, Aquanaut trumps the regular swimming pin." Um, no, it doesn't, the requirements are different. . . but ANYWAY)

 

Considering your last question. . .I think it depends on the boy. My son is ten. He goes through the list & says, "Oh, I'd be interested in that." When he was seven or eight, though, it was usually adults saying, "Hey, did you do this activity? Then you might have that belt loop!"

 

The sports ones, tho, I think the boys just *do*. they don't have to do it ON PURPOSE. It's when they have to make a poster (like for pet care, wildlife conservation, weather, astronomy, etc) that it really has to be intentional. By coincidentally earning a BL, they feel successful & are more likely to do one on purpose. well, maybe.