beltloops and pins question

[saschuster]

What do you do if you think a parent is not being honest with their scouts achievements? We have a tiger cub whose parent has turned in a list of 13 beltloops and 19 pins they say their son has earned. I know everything is based on the honor system but I have had a chance to get to know this parent personally, more than I would like to have gotten to know, and I honestly think this person is not sticking to the honor system and just getting what they can for their son so he will stay in scouts. I have a son who is a wolf and has only earned two of the pins and we work on something every week. I am not sure if we just go with what this parent is saying or if we should have a sit down and review the pin requirements and call them out? I hate to see the boy learning that he can get what he wants without working for it, that is my only issue with all of this.

[Greaves]

The parent is Akela--we are to trust them to accurately report what their son has done.

 

I would probably talk to the parents, though, and explain the process again. With them being first-year parents, is it not somehow possible that (through over-zealous ignorance) they made an error? I would also mention that doing everything in the first year eliminates the adventure of doing something new as a Wolf. And Webelos requirements can be met by earning (or re-earning) belt loops as a Webelos.

 

and, as former advancement chair for my son's pack. . . that is awfully expensive. I would probably mention it to the parents that these things aren't free, but I'm a cheapskate, and thrift is my natural state.

 

wait, how does he have more pins than beltloops? you have to have the belt loops in order to earn the pin.

[Twocubdad]

Greaves is dead on.

 

I would add is that BLs and pins are useful as something for the boy to earn as he goes along. It's nice to stand up and be recognized for something at most pack meetings. If the boy is blowing through all the BLs as a Tiger, he's going to have long, dry spells between rank advancements as a Wolf, Bear and Webelos.

 

I would also expect over the next few years that quite a few den meeting, pack activities and summer camp programs are going to be built around earning BLs. Is their boy going to sit through those programs or is he going to cause a problem because he already has it?

 

As to the money, that's no small matter. Our pack's policy was to give the boy the BL or pin only once. You can earn it mutiple times, but you only get one set of hardware. By Webelos the boys don't really care, but for a little guy, is he going to be unhappy is his whole den gets bling and he comes away empty-handed?

[TigerLisa]

I agree with Greaves. Yes, we are supposed to take the Akela's word for it. But I think in an extreme situation like this (19 PINS for a Tiger???), I would nicely inquire as to whether they are clear on the requirements for those items. We had a situation last summer where a den put in for numerous pins for new Scouts, including ice skating. Well, our area does not have an indoor ice skating rink, and these boys were brand new, so we KNEW that one was bogus. It turned out to be just sloppy record-keeping by the den leader and not actually READING the requirements clearly.

[ManyHats]

Did they just turn in a list or did they print out the worksheets and turn them in? I had a parent turn in long list right before the big awards ceremony. I went through the long list and any that had some thing they could bring in (ie. poster) I asked that they bring to the next den meeting. I explained that it encourages the other scouts in the den to work on belt loops, and helps them speak in front of a group.

The parent said she mistakenly wrote down one of the belt loops that had a poster as a requirement.

[TigerLisa]

ManyHats raises a good point. I have heard of Packs who require the completed worksheets be turned in in order to claim a belt loop or pin. I think this would need to be stated as a policy that applied to ALL Scouts in order to be fair, but it is a viable option to eliminate this kind of thing in the future.

[Mom2Scouts06]

We had this issue with a parent in our den who claimed that her son had "earned" these pins and loops as a Bear but was never awarded them...then right before AOL and Crossover tried to turn in a list with almost every single belt loop and pin on it! When we said no way are we back dating belt loops the parent then went out and purchased the items themselves at the Scout Shop. Hopefully the parent was honest and he actually did earn them....if not he learned a nice lesson in getting something for nothing that will not do well for him in Boy Scouts.

 

Our pack then insituted a policy that said the pack only pays for loops and pins that are earned in a Scout event (either council, den or pack event) and that any loops and pinned earned at home with parent outside of Scouting has to be paid for by the parent.

[saschuster]

Thank you so much for all of your replies!

 

There were no attached worksheets for anything, just a handwritten list but that is a great idea, not only with this child but for everyone. I have used them a few times with my own son just to make sure we have everything covered that needed to be.

 

I hate to think of this family being dishonest and like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt but this parent has already proved several times to be untrustworthy so we will definitly be doing something before all of these are bought and given out! We are also cheapskates, myself and the treasurer so the money definitly comes into play with this as well!

[Snow_White]

I have to disagree with the idea of requiring worksheets to get the belt loop or pin - to used the much dreaded phrase, this is adding to the requirements.

 

However, a diplomatic conversation with a parent can clear up a lot of misunderstandings about the program. Some of us who have been around Scouting for a long time forget how much new parents don't know.

 

 

If that doesn't clear up anything, the parent is the Akela and you have to live with that. Of course, if the requirement says "discuss with your den" or "display at a pack meeting, you can state if that wasn't actually done; a Tiger can't earn more pins than belt loops; and it's up to the pack who has to pay for them (policy applied consistently to all scouts).

 

Good luck - we all end up dealing with similar situations now and then.

[ScoutNut]

Yeah, the more pins than belt loops is a BIG red flag.

 

Take a look at the requirements for what they say they have done (all requirements are online at BSA National web site, and a pdf of the last book without the new loops is on the ScoutStuff National shop site), and then have a talk to the parent.

 

Does your Pack have a policy about what/how they cover the loops and pins from the A&S program? If not, perhaps the CC and Treasurer should come up with one.

 

 

[Greaves]

I love the beltloop program. I think it's a great, age-appropriate way to introduce the kids to the idea of merit badges. As a homeschooling parent and den leader, I often fit belt loops into our cirriculum. (Wildlife conservation, for example, is a natural science project.)

 

I've been thinking about the "more pins than belt loops," and I have a possibility. If the boy earned & received the art belt loop in November, then it would be the art pin in April. so maybe the imbalance is caused by earlier beltloops.

 

I would definitely take the approach that "Gee willikers, I hope you weren't mixed up on this" rather than "Liar liar official uniform pants on fire." Especially that first year parent'--when my son started, I knew *nothing*--including thinking that some of these people must be paid to run the Pack.

[ScoutNut]

The most common "error" for new families is to use any and all activities the kid has been involved in since he could walk.

 

Then you get the amazed "You mean we can't use that trip to the zoo when he was in preschool?", "But he went to a bowling birthday party in Kindergarten, why can't that count!"

 

 

[SSScout]

I would POLITELY inquire as to the venue of the earning, encourage the parent/Akela to realize that part of Cubbing is the group experience. If the Cub is to earn the bowling BL, why not organize a Den outing?

Many BL and pins MUST be earned at Council/District events, notably archery and BBs. Clarification can be a good thing.

 

If you want a fun time, ask the Cub about the earning....

[kari_cardi]

We just went through a similar situation in our pack. We changed our policies as a result. We will buy up to 10 belt loops and pins per scout each year. Any more than that, we will announce as recognitions but not purchase the actual awards. We came to this decision after considering that 1. Parents are Akela and 2. Anyone can purchase any of the Cub Scout belt loops and pins at our local scout shop without any paperwork. In the current situation, we simply explained that the pack could not afford the cost but the parent was welcome to visit the scout shop to purchase the awards.

 

There were a few requirements checked off that didn't seem quite right, like sharing a display with the pack or den. So in the future, the den leaders are also going to keep a closer eye on what is being entered in our online tracking program so they can quietly discuss and intervene as necessary.

 

I feel for the boys in these situations, especially once they realize their parents are cheating and are themselves cheated of the experience.(This message has been edited by sasha)

[jhankins]

You gotta be careful with the requirements on the A&S program. Sometimes it says "Share with your pack or den" and others it explicitly says "Share with your pack, den, or family."

 

Thanks for all the insight into how you run the program. I like limiting the amount purchased per year.