New Cub Program

[cubdad4]

In case you haven't seen it, the new issue of Scouting magazine (May/June) has a good article on the new version of Cub Scouting. Most of our leaders have been running a version of this and it looks to be pretty well laid out. I like the focus on advancement, it does seem to be the most important thing to keep Cub Scouts in the program.

[Mom2Scouts06]

My oldest sons den has done den based advancement since he joined Scouts. My younger sons den leader always followed the advancement at home method...I like den based advancement much better. Helps out those boys who have totally uninvolved family members to get their advancement done!

[DeanRx]

While I understand WHY BSA made this move and most of our dens in the pack already operate like this...

 

Its a sad, sad commentary on parental involvement in most kids' lives these days. Parents don't want to have to work on anything with their child or spend time with them other than be the chaufuer from one paid activity to the next. They want to pay the dues, drop them off, pick them up in an hour to hour-and-half, and have them get an award for something at the pack meeting. With the new cub program, BSA has bought into and endorsed this mentality.

 

While I'm not opposed to this shift in program, I wish BSA had rolled out something with more emphasis on FAMILY involvement in scouting. Boys do their best when mom, dad, grandparents, or someone in their family actually engages in the activities with them and takes an interest in their progress. Now, progress is squarely planted in the den leaders ability to run the meetings as assigned. Its a business model really - why not, Wood Badge has changed this way, so has most of the youth leadership training in Boy Scouts as far as I can tell.

 

I guess advancement = retention - so you can't really argue with the formula. However, I fear that this is just one more step towards scouting becoming about advancement and advancement only. We already have enough scouts (and more so parents) that view the program as a goal to be reached, instead of a lifestyle to be lived. Look on these boards regarding drop rates after AOL, drop rates in involvement after getting Eagle, and struggling OA units. A good deal of that can be traced to, "well, I made it to the final rank, nothing left for me to do in scouts... time to move on to something else....".

 

Not to mention the entire emphasis on rank advancement (both in cubs and in boy scouts) tends to change the program into a "me" driven program. What can 'I' achieve, instead of 'how can I mature while helping or serving others'.

 

Oh well, like most everything else in western society and western education (for sure), it must be quantified, stratified and have metrics measured or else we as a society usually find little use for it and assign little value to it.

 

Dean's 2-cents

[bbender]

. . . on the other hand (and not at all to disagree with the idea that there needs to be more "family involvement", not less -- which is why we have our Pack's "every parent leads" requirement for den meetings), there are elements of the idea of the new program that can increase parental involvement -- because it will make it easier (a) for Den Leaders to plan and run the meetings (as the program has been announced, there will be full meeting plans tied to advancement elements, but with more clarity and fun options than were seen in the "Fast Tracks" pilot plans), and (b) for Den Leaders to recruit and "hand off" to other parents portions of den meetings to those more knowledgeable about the achievement area (even, in some cases, I suspect a Den Leader could hand a copy of the day's Meeting Plan to a parent who walks in at the opening, and ask them "can you cover 'this' part when we get to it").

 

Yes, it is possible to create full, meaty den meetings now using existing sources and add achievements in to get the badge and/or send it home (and hope that parents "get it" and help their sons, and don't just pencil whip the book right before Blue & Gold), and the new Meeting Resource Guide won't (I hope) eliminate that sort of excellent initiative, but . . . by making it easier to get meetings done (especially in the early den meetings when leaders and scouts can get frustrated if they don't "get it" and might pull out if they don't have success or fun), it is hoped that more leaders will be involved and successful, and involve others in the process as well. More den leaders will get "hooked" by successful meetings, and that means . . . more and better program.

 

As far as it being "advancement and advancement only", from what has been posted (and I don't have the Scouting Magazine yet, nor is the online edition updated last I checked), it will cue in more "fun" options than the "Fast Tracks" pilot plans. And I would suspect that a great use of roundtable would be to note how to "fun up" the meeting plans, from the ideas around the table and the vast resources that Scouters have in places like this.

 

Bert Bender

Pack and District Trainer

http://atlanta631.mypack.us/

 

[moosetracker]

BBenders comment >> ...and don't just pencil whip the book right before Blue & Gold...

[bbender]

Interesting. On the comments raised my MooseTracker:

 

As to "from what I was told, the den leader must now sign the books, not the parents. So even if the family works on advancement at home, they will need to start coming to the den leader, and the scout must tell them what they did, then the den leader will do the sign off." ===> oh dear, I hope that's not the absolute practice, nor the directive issued. Though, for what it's worth, currently in nearly every case I would suspect that the parent and/or cub ALREADY comes to the Den Leader (if only to hand over the book for review and recording) and, even if the DL doesn't "sign off in the book" (because the parent already did), the DL would "report it" to the Pack/Council at the right time for advancement purposes (though some packs might have a direct report from parents to an advancement record keeper).

-- As a result, I suspect that most DLs have "dialogue" of some sort with parents, and creative DLs even now would probably say to those parents "gosh, since you've signed off Jimmy on 'knots', can you and Jimmy come work with the rest of the den on that sometime?"

-- That approach tends to get the early "pencil whippers" (those who want Jimmy to earn rank by Halloween) to dial it back some!

-- Plus, I believe the FAQs indicate that some items will need to be done at home with parents.

-- And there's gonna be make up stuff that's gonna get done at home.

 

As to "fear that the Fast Track den meetings I saw seemed more like weekend long events" ===> Part of that, I believe, just results from creating an arc of meetings that can allow a Den to complete the rank work in as few as 8, maybe as many as 12, meetings (though the Scouting Magazine refers to 16 meetings, and if that tracks with past pilot plans, I suspect some "elective" meetings are in those that could be replaced by doing busy achievement meetings over two sessions), and it assumes that meeting less often means you'll probably meet longer when you do gather (P.S.: be sure to add some games and fun stuff).

-- So, if your schedule is a "twice a month" schedule, you can get it done by February. Yes, gonna be tight. But it gives you a path to get it done.

-- If you meet more often, I hope that folks will realize that of course you can spread out the good stuff over several sessions (and/or do some at weekend Pack events).

 

As to "they will not be as strict with following the plan exactly, as they were for people who piloted the program" ===> Hope so too (as originally noted in this chain http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=251353#id_251353 about our revision of Fast Tracks to make it more "fun" and more "flexible"). But a lot of that also depends on the attitude of those who train, conduct roundtables, etc. Used to drive me crazy to hear someone say "next month you HAVE to do these things at your meetings" just because they were set out in "Program Helps". We felt like we were screwing up because we would, say, do bike themed activities in a non-biking month, which made sense to us because we were doing a Bike Rodeo thanks to volunteers who got it together for that month.

 

. . . On that topic of being strict and following things in a "guide" or "helps" handout exactly (statements like "from what I was told, the den leader must [fill in the blank . . . ]"), when it comes to den meetings for Scouts, as long as it is done safely, within the Scouting rules and guidelines, and, as to achievements, the steps/activities are done (in meeting or at home) properly, I really really hope that folks "keep it simple, make it fun", and don't major in minor details and distractions.

-- If you have a great guest presenter/parent who can come in and have a more special, fun, exciting, interesting meeting "out of order" compared to the "guide", I hope you'll take that opportunity to use your resources and do the great guest presentation. In that case, please tune out someone else who says "but you did that wrong, because meeting 7 came after meeting 3, so it was out of order!" Just be sure the achievements all get done.

-- As it is, any Den Leader who's doing advancement work is gonna have to keep a log of what you did (did you "do it all"?) and who was there, so if you do switch the meeting order to take advantage of those opportunities -- especially bringing in other parents when it fits their schedules and talents -- it shouldn't be that much of a burden, especially if it takes other loads off the Den Leader (like getting another parent to lead the program activity that day!).

 

Bert Bender

Pack and District Trainer

http://atlanta631.mypack.us/

 

[ScoutNut]

>>"But, from what I was told, the den leader must now sign the books, not the parents. So even if the family works on advancement at home, they will need to start coming to the den leader, and the scout must tell them what they did, then the den leader will do the sign off."

[moosetracker]

Well I had mentioned it on another thread..

But, the two I saw were the first two for Webloes I or Webloes two

 

the first one was foresty, not bad.. Until they added on AND while doing this get your travel activity too.. Take a bus out of state.. (Planning & mapping included).. to go look at the trees.. (How many of you can take a bus trip out of state, for an hour or two on a Thursday evening?.. Maybe if you live in a town on a border. But what bus is going to dump you out and pick you up from a forest? Now lets look at how far your weekly dollar dues will go in buying you a ticket out of state.. Hmm.. it may need to be one way, can't afford to get you back..

 

The next activity was to a museum.. OK you can do a small tiny museum.. but most museums for us (ARE OUT OF STATE).. (Why can't I take my bus trip here?) Most museums are very large and at least half a day. And will my dollar dues pay for this ticket?

 

I fear after that I quickly left the sight in fear. But, coming here people relaxed me that it will not be so strict a code to follow.. (So I can just go to the forest in the middle of my town if I so choose.)

 

Maybe the bus route etc.. could be planned in a earlier meeting (except this was the first meeting after summer break..) But, you can't space out you bus trip or museum visit over several den meetings.

[bbender]

On MooseTrackers notes about combining Webelos Traveler Badge Activity with Forestry (or Naturalist, which is how it is paired in the Fast Tracks pilot), some thoughts:

 

I'd bet that there is not a meeting plan that dictates "Take a bus out of state.. (Planning & mapping included).. to go look at the trees". And I hope there never will be, for the sake of those in central Texas or anywhere in Alaska! ;^) However, I suspect that (and this is based on looking at the Fast Tracks pilot plan), the concept is to work on these two elements of Traveler:

 

"2. Use a timetable to plan a trip from your home to a city in another state by railroad, bus, airline, or ferry."

-- That's just "plan" a trip, NOT take it. One can do that with a handout, or on a computer.

 

"4. With your parent or guardian, take a trip to a place that interests you. Go by car, bus, boat, train, or plane."

-- That doesn't mandate the bus, nor the distance, nor crossing any geographic boundaries.

 

Bottom Line: I don't think that the new Guide's plans will dictate that the Den go on a bus ride, in or out of state.

 

Now, as to the museum bit, if it comes out like Fast Tracks, this is part of Naturalist:

 

"4. Visit a museum of natural history, a nature center, or a zoo with your family, Webelos den, or pack. Tell what you saw."

 

So, the "mash up" here between Traveler and Naturalist is to plan how to travel to a "museum of natural history, a nature center, or a zoo" with your family for a Den meeting, and travel there. Doesn't have to be far. Doesn't have to be the Smithsonian -- as to what constitutes a "museum of natural history, a nature center, or a zoo", I would use your local resources, and do your best. Could be the local display in the county agricultural office. Find a fun place. Lots of middle and high school science teachers have nature stuff, and can present it, in a more fun, hands-on, meaningful way than if you're in the crowd at a larger zoo. Keep it Simple, Make it Fun. Do your Best!

 

Bert Bender

Pack and District Trainer

South Fulton District, Atlanta Area Council

http://atlanta631.mypack.us/

 

 

[CPAMom]

My perception is that many Cub Scouts drop out because the parents are not motivated to get them to the meetings. If parents perceive that meetings accomplish advancement, I think they will be more motivated to get their sons to the meetings.

 

My husband led Bears by going thru the book and pulling out achievements that worked well for den meetings. He just could not relate to the monthly themes and busy activities. The parents commented that they liked his approach. The kids all seemed happy.

 

We have one scout who seems to strategically attend. If his mom knows we are working on a Web badge that her son already has or one that is not critical, he may not show up.

 

I think this will ease the burden for parents of what has to happen at home if they consistently have their scouts at meetings.

[bbender]

Let me circle back to the concept of flexibility in the Cub Scout program. There was the note about whether "the new program will be more flexible than the pilot", as it was also noted that the Scouting Magazine article stated that "Rank advancement is based on activities laid out for the entire school year, a clearly sign-posted path that discourages alteration in the curriculum." And, yep, the magazine article says that, which sounds like a "thou shalt not deviate from the guide" message.

 

-- But . . . note that the very next sentence calls the guide "it's a place to start" (it says "for the new den leader, this will dramatically increase confidence as it gives them a plan to execute . . . it's a place to start").

 

Those in the studied "Pilots" were told to do it exactly as written, with no deviations. For statistical purposes, that made a lot of sense to be sure that everybody did it the same way. But the studies are over: mandatory adherence to what you do within your Den Meeting program shouldn't be required any longer. Of course, some folks revel in the idea of describing "program helps" or program meeting "guide" ideas as absolute requirements that one must do just as written without deviation. But others recoil from that rigidity, finding it more beneficial to apply their judgment to what meeting program to put on, or how to do it with their resources.

 

-- And Program Helps and similar sources were never really written to be rigid, requirements: they were resources to be used to assist leaders in planning meetings. Program "Helps". Not Program "Mandatory Content".

 

-- Hopefully, the Guide will be received in that flexible vein: a plan you can execute right out of the box and get advancement done, but also a "place to start" as you make it fit your Scouts and Families.

 

As an example of how any meeting program plan will be deployed, hopefully leaders will feel free to set up the order their meetings to fit Parental involvement (keeping in mind that ya gotta get the right advancement done timely -- can't just do a bunch of electives and call it a rank). Because it would be better to do a First Aid program when the EMT Mom has a day off and can lead that program, rather than missing out on using that resource because "first aid isn't until next month" if the EMT Mom can't make it that day.

 

Bert Bender

Pack and District Trainer

South Fulton District, Atlanta Area Council

http://atlanta631.mypack.us/

 

[pbmartin70]

There is no reason you "have" to be done by February. The only ones we push to get done by the Blue & Gold are our second year Webelos earning the Arrow of Light and our first year Webelos earning their Webelos badge. For the Tigers, Wolves and Bears we let them finish at their own pace and do advancement ceremonies in April, May and June as boys finish. Why push everyone to finish by February? Our pack has about 75 scouts, so if we had one advancement ceremony for all of them at the Blue & Gold it would take forever.

[bbender]

For that matter, there's no reason why you "have" to do your Blue & Gold Banquet in February, especially if you're doing it to recognize those who earned rank advancement. Our Pack has alternated between very late February, or early or even very late March, depending on where our school's spring break hits (normally early to mid March) and/or other school events. Yeah, yeah, February is Scouting's birthday, but . . . hey, sometimes better late than never.

 

For those who do earn rank by B&G, and want more, the good news is there's more stuff you can earn during the rest of the spring.

[moosetracker]

You don't want to get the cubscout crossover any later then March. We had one group finish up and cross over sometime in May.. Our Troop had a time of it trying to figure out summer camp with them. (were they going or not, health forms etc.)

 

Parents did not want to make up their minds until they felt they & their child were comfortable in the troop. But, there was little time to get the cub scouts and parents use to the troop before summer break.

 

Camp registration went in very late for these guys. Only half went. And they boys were very nervous and unsure of themselves (more so then most new scouts) during that summer camping trip.

 

You need to give them time to get acclamated to the troop before summer break.

 

The same Weblos leader this year brought in another group of cross-over scouts. He crossed them over mid-March this time. Don't know if he just knew what he was doing better and got better timing, or he learned his lesson.

[bbender]

We actually (almost) had the most terrific pre-crossover/goodbye to our Webelos II a year ago: the B&G was on a Friday of the Troop's "Welcome Webelos" campout. The Webelos had done extra Troop visits to prepare for the campout, and the plan was for them to have their packs at the front of the room, and after they got the Arrow of Light, we'd have a goodbye . . . literally, as they put on their packs and hiked out with the Boy Scouts.

 

Unfortunately, the threat of really really bad T-Storms coupled with our next to the river campsite where the Ranger told us not to come caused the campout to be postponed, so we couldn't pull that off . . . maybe someday.

 

We were really hoping to get a visceral "I want to do that" reaction from the younger guys . . .