Den Chief Requirement

[ConfusedVolunteer]

This is another question on the Requirements of a Den Chief and I am in desperate need of some guidance.

 

I have been searching and unable to locate a line item that spells out which Troop a Den Chief must be pooled from. Can someone assist me?

 

I am a volunteer from a Pack and our Unit Commissioner (and others not from our Pack) is demanding that we get rid of our current Den Chief because he is not from the associated Troop. Our current Den Chief volunteered on his own almost 3 years ago to help out with a Den with very "active Scouts". He was functioning as a Den Chief before any of us even realize it was a true position.

Anyway, it seems like our Pack in being used in a power struggle between 2 Troops and some of us volunteers are getting very frustrated with being put in the middle. I would like to find out for sure if we are in fact violating BSA by-laws with our selection of the DC.

 

Any assistance, guidance, insight, clarification you can provide would be greatly be appreciated by us "ConfusedVolunteer".

Thank You

[Oak Tree]

Den chiefs can come from any troop. Ask your unit commissioner to show you his position in writing.

 

From scouting.org

 

Qualifications: Is an older Boy Scout, Varsity Scout, or Venturer. Selected by the senior patrol leader and Scoutmaster, Varsity Scout Coach, or Venturing Advisor at the request of the Cubmaster. Approved by the Cubmaster and pack committee for recommendation to the den leader. Registered as a youth member of a troop, team, or crew.(This message has been edited by Oak Tree)

[shortridge]

Echoing: There is no such rule. If the Cubmaster, pack committee and den leader approve the young man, it's OK.

[Eagle92]

No such rule as I would NOT have been able to be a DC if this rule existed as my troop NEVER had an affiliated pack until my last year as a youth in it.

 

The reason why you are in the power struggle situation is b/c the troop affiliated with yu sees the DC as a 'thief" trying to take "their" scouts away. It happened with me, my entire den joined DC's troop instead of the troop chartered by the pack's CO, and as an adult. In both cases, the troops not providing DCs eventually folded.

[dg98adams]

If this DC has been doing the job for 3 years, has your CM completed the DC award paperwork? Get that paperwork, it's easy to fill out and he certainly has the tenure and needs recognized.

 

UC's are supposed to offer help/guidance, not make demands or make-up policy

 

Otherwise your DC is doing the job.(This message has been edited by dg98adams)(This message has been edited by dg98adams)

[ConfusedVolunteer]

Thank you everyone for your very quick responses. I feel more comfortable now asking for proof of that requirement.

 

I should make a couple of corrections because I didn't proof-read before sending. I don't think it makes a difference on the final answer though.

It was the District Commissioner who has been demanding it, not Unit Commissioner.

The power struggle is really one-sided with our associated Troop making a lot of requests and accusations of what our Pack is doing wrong.

 

Eagle92 - this is exactly our situation - we keep hearing that we need to be "feeding" our associated Troop our boys when most of us as parents feel it is each individual family's choice to cross-over where they want. We don't advertise for other Troop or hold events together. As far as our Scouts are concerned, they don't even know the differences between Troops yet.

 

This site is wonderful offering ideas to make Scouting fun for the boys and in sorting through some of "non-sense" issues.

Thanks again for your input.

[nolesrule]

Commissioners are in no position to demand anything from units. We (yes, I'm one of 'em) can make requests, offer guidance, quote from policy manuals (assuming it's not a fictional policy), etc. But demand things? Not a chance.

 

There's really no such thing as "feeder packs" and "associated troops". They are just units that share the same chartering organization. They can have as little or as much of a relationship as they want, but it's up to the units and the chartering organization to make it happen. If the troop wants the outgoing Webelos to crossover to their unit, they need to be actively recruiting and having their presence felt (positively) within the pack.(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

[ScoutNut]

Shame on the District Commissioner, he/she should know better.

 

While both the Pack and Troop share a CO (chartering organization), that does NOT mean the Troop owns the Pack, or that the Troop is entitled to any special favors from the Pack.

 

Make sure your Den Chief's SM knows that he is a DC for your Pack, and what kind of a job he is doing. If he has not been to training have him take the online DC Fast Start, and the Den Chief training offered by your council (a requirement for the Den Chief Service Award).

 

Are there other dens in your Pack who would benefit from having a Den Chief? If so, ask your annoying, and incorrect SM, if any of his Scouts are willing to get trained, and take on the positions.

 

Learning the differences between Troops is something the Webelos and their families should be doing. Your Webelos dens should be visiting a number of different Troops. A Boy Scout Troop, like a Cub Pack, is NOT a one size fits all thing. If you want these Scouts to stay in Scouting, have a good experience, and maybe one day become Eagles, then it is very important for each Webelos to find the Troop that fits him and his family.

 

[CalicoPenn]

As others have pointed out, there are no requirements that a Den Chief come from an associated Troop. As others have pointed out, there are no rules that require anyone in the Pack to bridge over to an associated Troop. Every Cub Scout, and their parent(s), make the determination of which Troop they decide to join. In most cases, Webelos Den Leaders will make the effort to have the Webelos visit at least a couple of Troops, not just the associated Troop.

 

Now how to deal with the District Commissioner. How strong is your Committee Chair and/or Cubmaster and how strong is their relationship with the COR for the Pack. There's only one way to deal with a District Commissioner who is demanding that your Pack "fire" a Den Chief that you folks obviously like and that's for the COR, Committee Chair and Cubmaster to contact the District Commissioner and tell him/her, in no uncertain terms, that s/he is no longer welcome to contact anyone from the Pack, ever - and that requires a stiff backbone and willingness to not give in. Then inform the DE, the District Chair and the Council Commissioner that the District Commissioner is persona non-grata in your Pack and that if he sends any Unit Commissioners to your Pack that have the same attitude, they will not be welcome either.

 

Then the next thing to do is for the Cubmaster and the Scoutmaster of the associated Troop to have a friendly cup of coffee to discuss why the associated Troop has not volunteered to send any Den Chiefs your way, and to make clear that the Pack will not force any parent or Cub to join the associated Troop. The Troop has to earn the Cubs, just like the other Troop has to earn the Cubs.

 

Then, as has been suggested, the Cubmaster and the Scoutmaster from the Den Chief's Troop should have a friendly cup of coffee to look at the requirements for the Den Chief Service Award to see if your Den Chief has earned it - chances are very good that in the past three years, without deliberately working toward it, that he has completed all the requirements and has earned the award. Imagine the last Pack Meeting of the year - all the Cubs and their parents gathered for one last hurrah before Summer, and the Den Chief's Scoutmaster and Senior Patrol Leader "mysteriously" being at the Pack Meeting, then the Cubmaster, Scoutmaster and Senior Patrol Leader calling the Den Chief up in front of the Pack and surprising him with the awarding of the Den Chief Service Award.

 

 

[perdidochas]

Does the "associated" Troop offer you Den Chiefs?

 

If not, this is a no-brainer. Tell them to put their Den Chiefs where their mouth is.

 

Do you have space for any more den chiefs?

 

If so, what's the problem?

[Gunny2862]

We work with a pack that we have no formal association with. We do however have two of the CM's sons, are looking for the third and except for the first six months of my tenure as SM have had DC's in place.

If they have a need for a DC in another Den that we can't provide then why shouldn't they be able to BE (insert appropriate Scout law word here) and help out.

Ultimately, why we do hope to get some Scouts from them every year - they aren't our Scouts and should go to the Troop that best fits what the Scouts want.

 

Alternately we have also placed DC's in Packs that were looking for DC's and couldn't get them from their traditionally friendly Troop. It was amazing how fast they found volunteers and put DC's back in place.

It's not about "stealing" any kids it's about doing good turns for folks that need them - and if we re-established a relationship between a Pack and a Troop, then YEA!

[John-in-KC]

WHAT GUNNY SAID