Doing YOUR vs THEIR best

[Scoutfish]

You ever read, see or hear something, form an opinion on it, then later on down the road, see an entirely different side to it?

 

Here's the situation: Our current Bear Den has from 21 to 24 boys in it depending on how many show up at each meeting night. For the most part, it's 24.

 

As of right now, my son, the DL's son, another ADL's son and maybe 1 or 2 other boy's have their Bear badge. My son has earned 1 gold and 2 silver arrow points.

 

In case your wondering.... I was out for a month and a half recovering from surgery, so we spent every day of winter break together.

 

Why the others don't...I don't honestly know.

 

Those boys have showed up, have participated as much as anybody, and are paid up on dues( not that that should matter with our hardship policies).

 

Now, I realize that not every boy follows through at home. I also know that some parents do not give a damn about any of it as soon as they leave the den/ pack meeting.( Oh do I ever know about that!)

 

But something caught my eye in my son's Cub Scout Bear Handbook ( #33451):

 

Page 7 - last paragraph:

 

" DO YOUR BEST

 

When has a boy completed an objective or achievement? When he , in your opinion as Akela, has completed the skill to the best of his ability. In Cub Scouting, boys are judged against their own standard, not against other boys. "

 

Honestly, I went with the whole "do your best" arguement. But having had something on my mind the last few days...I see it in a whole new light:

 

What if the boys did their best, and the best was the very best they could do - due to OUR ( as leaders and/ or parents) limitations?

What if the only reason they didn't do better was because of our influence or actions instead of their own ?

 

With a den of 24 boys, a ton of paperwork -advancement, attendance, acttivity , and dues paperwork eating up sooooo much times, as well as other responcibities as a leader in general distracting you... couldn't the boys best been "less bested" by us?

 

Now another thought: Our pack pretty much takes the summer off. We have at least 1 fun day each month in June, July,and August, but that's about it. And most of the dens reach rank by B&G or Crossover in late April.

 

So right now, our program isn't officially over, but nothing like it was during the pre B&G season.

 

Bluntly: We have time on our hands, and it seems like we are wasting it.

 

I do not want to sound like I am calling anybody out, but what about the boys who haven't reached rank yet? Why is there a plan to teach whittling chip to 19 boys when only a handfull have rank?

 

Does any of this make sense to anybody? What I'm saying , that is?

 

I do not for one second mean to imply we give them rank just because they showed up.....but if they tried, and DID THIER BEST..but did it only as much as we allowed them to..don't we at least owe them the time if not the Bear badge already?

 

I think I'm starting to get mad over this!

 

 

(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

[Snow_White]

Well, I don't think that I do get what you're saying here, but I'm willing to hike along with you for a bit.

 

When my son was a Bear, most of the Scouts in his den had earned rank by this point in the year. For those that hadn't, the den leader communicated individually with each family to remind them what needed to be completed at home. She ended up scheduling one additional (optional) den meeting where she planned specific activities to help these scouts finish up rank. I know that she also met with certain families outside of den meeting time to review and sign off activities.

 

Are you thinking that you need to be doing something similar? We had 13 Scouts in the den, not 24, so it sounds like you have a more difficult row to hoe. It's easy to be headed for burnout at this point in the year, particularly as spring sports start up and families start focusing elsewhere. It's a good idea to start doing outside activites - from previous posts, I don't think you have a problem doing that!

 

Since Whittling Chip can count toward either the Bear badge or arrow points, I don't see the problem with that plan.

 

[ScoutNut]

So you are suggesting that ONLY the boys who have their Bear rank finished should be allowed to work on Whittling Chip? Why? It is an option in the Bear program. All of the boys (not just the ones that have their rank) are Bears.

 

The 19-20 Scouts in your Bear den who have not earned their Bear Rank Award yet have until the end of the school year, or even a bit longer, to finish it up. Why stop working with them now simply because the leader's sons have all finished their rank?

 

Look at what the majority of the Scouts still need. Work den meetings around those requirements. The 4 boys who are finished can either count these activities as electives, or, if it is something they have already done, they can help the other 20 boys out.

 

Communication with the parents is KEY in a den. I suggest a Parent Meeting. Give the parents plenty of advance notice, but make it VERY CLEAR that it is IMPORTANT one parent per Bear attend. This meeting can be either before, after, or during, the regular den meeting. If during the regular meeting, the assistant den leaders can take the boys in one area, while the den leader has the adults in another area. Everyone should get a printout of exactly what is going to be covered in the coming den meetings, and what they will still need to finish on their own. The fact that they should be working at home with their sons should be explained clearly. Explain clearly the fact that the den leaders do NOT know what has been done at home unless the parents sign it off in the Handbook. Also give them a schedule (once a month before den needs are due to Pack Advancement person) of when their Handbooks should be brought to the den meeting and handed into the den advancement person/den secretary/DL/ADL/whoever.

 

Send updates home OFTEN.

 

If there are still some boys at the end of the school year who have not finished their rank, that is sad, but the way it goes. At least you will be able to say you gave them a great Bear program all the way through.

 

BTW - Yes, it is the BOYS best, but they have to at least TRY, and it is up to their PARENTS, for work done at home, if their best has been reached or not. Saying that doing nothing at all IS their best, so give them the award, because they did nothing, is not right.

[ScoutNut]

Once again Scoutfish, wasn't this the EXACT same issue discussed in the thread you spun off of?

 

OK, that started with Tigers and you are now advocating it for your Bears.

 

Still the same thread. Still the same opinions.

 

Why start up a new one?

[Scoutfish]

Scoutnut,

ell,I felt it was a little different by implying "What if it was the leaders who didn't do their best , and as a result, the boys didn't earn a rank yet because of that."

 

You know what I mean? The boys were working at it, doing everything they were asked, but due to the Dl having too much on his plate, the program wasn't delivered as it should be.

 

I have nothing agaisnt the whittling chip( helped my son earn it) But instead of just loking for filler activities to keep them busy til the end of the year...why not knock out any unfinished acheivement items - that way we can finish the ENTIRE achievement and cross it off.

 

Snow_White, Unfortunatly, I think the only communivation is the DL asking parents to make sure stuff gets done...but not specifically telling each scout what or how much -IE: Scout Billy needs to finish acheivement ##/item #F ( Participate in a flag ceremony) to get credit for achievement #3 to be complete. Well, why not have our den participate in the next flag ceremony at eithe a den or pack meeting? Billy sure can't do that ay home , now can he? Well, I suppose the book means with your den - or pack at the very least.

 

Now if cub Billy ( and possibly a few others)need that item to complete rank.....why are we looking at whittling chip instead of those unfinished requirements?

 

 

Like I said, I think it's just due to the overload of just having too many boys and all the paperwork that goes with it, not by a willfull or concious slacking off by anybody.

 

Sometimes, with that many boys, stuff takes twice as long.

 

So in the end, did we short change the boys and are they lacking Bear rank because of it?

 

 

And in that specific case ..... If the boys showed up, did the work and tried their very best - then don't we owe them that rank?

 

 

I mean, if the leadership is what prevented a boy from earning the badge...that's our fault, not the boy's!

[Scoutfish]

Simply stated:

 

What if the scouts do everything we ask them to, but WE ( the leadership) didn't deliver it right or correctly or in a timely fashion?

[Scoutfish]

Don't think I'm just placing blame either.... I'm mad at myself too. My son has earned his Bear badge as well as gold Arrow Points and two silver Arrow Points.

 

Seems to me that if all the leadership's kids have rank, plus ...whatever else they have earned..then the other boys should have at least rank. Sure not always all, but more than what we have.

[Snow_White]

I think your thoughts are headed on the right direction.

 

My experience has been that there are always some Scouts that earn more awards, and more quickly, than others. And yes, they tend to be the leaders' sons.

 

Yes, the leaders have a responsibility to help the others finish up. Many achievements can be completed at home, but some do need to be done with the den. Have a flag ceremony to open each den meeting, make sure that participation is rotated among the kids and make sure everybody gets a chance - DL needs to keep track. A little extra work, but I think I agree that if this is not done, maybe the DL isn't doing their best.

 

And yes, the den leaders should be reviewing each Scout's progress, and communicating to the families what specific items need to be completed. Although we are all capable of reading the book, many Bear families donn't seem to grasp the concept that the 12 achievements need to be many from each category, not just any 12. DL's job to help make sure they get that. Yep, a lot of extra work with that many kids.

 

But to jump to the conclusion that the leaders have failed the Scouts, and therefore the badge should be awarded? I don't think so...

 

I apologize if I'm not misinterpreting you.

 

 

[Scoutfish]

I do not mean to imply that we give them the badge just becase we screwed up. I mean, if they tried, participated,and did their best ( as the requiremenst say) and the only reason they haven't done more is because of us, not them....then I'm starting to think they have earned it, BASED UPON the books' definition of meeting the requiremnt.

Perosnally, I do not advocate giving anything out of pity or just for the sake of keeping all boys on an even keel. I feel hard work should be rewarded and the lack of - not rewarded ( although not punished).

 

But IF the only treason those boys didn't reach rank was due to our insuffiencies AND they tried AND participated AND did thier best... I feel they met the requirements as stated.

 

 

Now, please understand I am not talking about any and all Cub Scouts den across America in a blanket statement. I am refering specifically to my den that I am ADL to. I do have some inside knowledge ( it would take 20 pages just to bring everybody up to speed) that makes me question wether we truely gave the boys the oppertunity to fully earn the rank at their own pace without indirect interfearance from us.

 

That make sense? If I know that the program we ( in this 1 den)delivered was not as god as it could have been, and it was our fault... then can we hold the boys or their families responcible?

[NE-IV-88-Beaver]

Yes, Scoutfish, life does present it's little dilemmas, doesn't it!

 

Instead of placing the blame on the den leaders, of which you are one, lets put some out there on the other parents. Twenty-four cubs is entirely too many for one den. Where were the other parents when it came time to step up and volunteer to be leaders, to split the den up into a more manageable number? Where were they when it came time to work with their boys at home? Where were they when it was time to address how Cubby was doing with the den leaders? The Cub Scout program only succeeds when parents step up and do their part. It's a family-based program, not just one hour-a-week or every other week. In the situation that you have described (although you imply that there may be more involved), the den leaders have done an outstanding job accomplishing anything with that big of a den. I hope that your den as Webelos Leader next year will not be that big! If it looks that way, start looking for additional leaders now and split it up into two dens of twelve at least.

 

But, whatever you do, do not start advocating giving out rank advancement that has not been earned. That is really a road that you don't want to get started down. Although there is something to be said for the philosophy of just giving each boy joining Boy Scouts the Eagle rank to begin with, then the pressure is off and they can just enjoy themselves! It sure would make it easier for us as leaders! Doing that would make us just a social club without a goal of developing young men into good and responsible citizens and would not be advancing the Scout program.

[Scoutfish]

Yeah, that does present another way of looking at it: We might have done a less than perfect job, but then again, we were working under less that perfect conditions.

 

 

 

Well, I surely hope it doesn't come down to that many next year. Actually, I have already made up plans and gathered ideas for next year to present at our next leaders meeting for running my Webelos den.

We ARE splitting into AT LEAST 2 dens if not more next year.

 

THis year is something I need to keep in the back of my mind.

[NE-IV-88-Beaver]

Way to go, learn from your experiences and take advantage of improvement opportunities! It sounds like you're already on your way to providing a better experience for these Cubs next year.

[Snow_White]

"I do not mean to imply that we give them the badge just becase we screwed up. I mean, if they tried, participated,and did their best ( as the requiremenst say) and the only reason they haven't done more is because of us, not them....then I'm starting to think they have earned it, BASED UPON the books' definition of meeting the requiremnt."

 

I'm still not sure exactly what you are trying to say here, or what you mean by "haven't done more". The "do your best" applies to how they complete a specific achievement, not "do your best" to complete as many requirements as you can. In other words, one of the possible requirements to complete achievement 3 is to be a member of the color guard for a flag ceremony in your den or pack. If a Scout in fact does this, we will presume that he has done his best in carrying out this function - not say, Sorry, Billy, you weren't standing at attention the whole time, so it doesn't count, try again. However, if Johnny tries his best to get picked to be a member of the color guard week after week and Den Leader Smith never calls on him, we don't say that Johnny did his best to meet the requirement and sign off.

 

You're doing a good job identifying what may have gone wrong so far this year, but the year is not over yet - there is still plenty of time to ensure that all Scouts who want to earn their rank badge do so.

 

And lest I sound too critical, I agree that it is amazing to have accomplished what you did so far, and I commend you for turning the critical eye on the situation. I'm sure you won't be making the same mistakes next year. (You'll be making different ones, but that's all part of the journey!)

[Twocubdad]

A few thoughts;

 

First, Snow White's and ScoutNuts thoughts on working with the boys are their parents to get them caught up are on track. The den leaders have an obligation to help these boys Do Their Best to complete the requirements, even if they missed the program the first time through or if their parents dropped the ball.

 

Secondly, if anyone in your pack still thinks 24 boys in a den is okay, please point to this situation as a prime example of why it is not okay. At some point each of these boys need individual attention which they are not receiving in a den of 24. That the three DLs sons are the only ones to have finished the badge is good evidence of that. With 24 boys, den programs have to be highly organized and tightly scheduled. Unfortunately, highly organized and tightly scheduled is not necessarily the hallmark of a good Cub Scout program. "We did knots last week, you missed it, sorry, we're moving on. And no, I don't have time to go back and help you get caught up."

 

Thirdly, I'm not really following your argument about Doing Your Best. If what your are saying is, using my above example, that if the adults did a poor job of organizing the knot tying session and one or several Scouts missed it, then those boys "did their best" and should be given a free pass on the achievement, NO, I disagree. They didn't do their best, they didn't do anything. If that's your standard, call the kid who dropped out in October and hasn't made a meeting since and tell him he's earned Bear, too.

 

Now, if those same Scouts approach me later and say they've looked at their books and think they've figured out how to tie the knots, you absolutely need to spend the time working with him to pass the requirement (but, again, see point #1). If the kid puts reasonable effort into trying, then I'd be glad to sign the requirement. He's probably learned more than half the boys who sat through an over-crowed den meeting.

 

Even at the tender age of 7 or 8, we need to begin teaching boys accountability. Giving them a pass because their DL or parents dropped the ball isn't the message we want to teach our boys. How many problems in this country can be traced to this kind of thinking?

 

Last, packs do their boys a great dis-service by letting the program fade away after crossover and blue and gold. Only the Webelos IIs crossed over, no one else. And hopefully, those Webelos IIs are getting more Scouting crammed in those first months in the troop than at any other time in Scouting. The remaining Cubs need the same advantage!

 

I know the tendancy is for packs to limp through September with the leadership focused on membership recruitment and organizing new dens. October and November are great months for Scouting, but of course things drop off over the holidays. January and February are big, but Spring sports pull a lot of guys away, especially on weekends, and all the whoop-tee-doo of cross over and blue & gold tends to make folks want to relax for a bit. So we end up delivering a FOUR MONTH PROGRAM! That's not okay.

 

This is when a good Cubmaster and Committee Chair earn their pay. Pack leaders need to make sure all dens are active through the spring. If a den leader is burned out by March, step in and help him/her out or replace them. The packs themselves need to be delivering strong programs, with a big event or two in the spring. Pack leader need to LEAD by motivating and encouraging the den leaders and others to finish the FULL PROGRAM YEAR with a quality Cub Scout program.

[Basementdweller]

Scoutfish your over analyzing again.

 

First off it is not the fault of the Den leader if the boys don't advance, The Den leader sees them one hour a week, tough to advance in that period. Parents are more responsible for the lack of advancement.

 

Do you guys use an advancement software package, then the solution is easy. Run an advancement report and see what they need. If not ask the parents to write down what the boys need or have 5 boys show up early for the meeting and go thru the books, I bet you can figure out real quick what they need to advance.

 

Whittle chip can wait. Their rank advancement cannot. June 1st is the dead line.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)