Is the Uniform required???? Prove it

[Basementdweller]

Well, I have got myself into another prove it situation. One of the den leaders said the uniform is required. In my Adult leader training, don't remember where it was at, Could someone provide a link or where to look.

[CalicoPenn]

Why are you proving anything? Your Den Leader made the statement that the uniform is required - tell the Den Leader to prove it. S/he won't be able to find anything in any of the BSA literature that states the uniform is required to be in Scouts. The only documentation to be found requiring uniforms will be for specific events such as the National Jamborees - but those requirements aren't translatable for the entirety of the BSA.

 

 

[Scoutfish]

Iknow it's not required..but if you were it, you are supposed to follow certain (hopefully not contradicting ) guidlelines.

 

But I do beleive this to be a great thread that "should" settle the debate that has been going on for a long while.

[DYB-Mike]

But I do beleive this to be a great thread that "should" settle the debate that has been going on for a long while

 

HA HA Scoutfish, do I detect a tongue planted firmly in cheek with that statement? Youve been around this Forum long enough to know that topics like this are never really settled, but thats what makes this a great place. Very often I read perspectives that I never considered and sometimes they change my view of things.

 

I think we can all agree that the uniform is a Method of Scouting and that when the uniform is worn there is a specific way in which it should be worn. Even that fact causes debate, for example, allowing jeans to be worn in place of uniform pants.

 

There is a purpose for wearing the uniform and that is spelled out in the Cub Scout Leader Book. I dont have a Scoutmasters Handbook so I cant speak to that.

 

Like you, I cant recollect read anywhere that the uniform is mandatory. As Calico Penn states a uniform may be mandatory for specific events, but thats the policy of those organizing the event. A Pack or Troop might make it mandatory as a part of its own policy. I know in my older sons Troop that the uniform is mandatory for Courts of Honor, Scout Sunday services and most Troop Meetings. We have similar requirements in our Pack.

 

I guess all that can be said is that, while there is no all encompassing the uniform is mandatory in BSA guidance, for a unit to flat out not require a uniform in any circumstances seem, to me, to be contrary to the purpose and image of Scouting. Thats just my opinion.

 

YIS

Mike

 

[Basementdweller]

Our Pack is losing scouts because the Den leaders are telling the Parents they have to have purchase uniforms.

 

I have been taught that the uniform is not required.

 

as pointed out it is a method.

 

I need a link to national to either prove or disprove this myth. Everything I have found on the Cub side says it is require or that is how I read it.

[sherminator505]

NO. It is not a requirement. It is a method of Scouting, it is highly recommended, and it is the only place where Cub Scout patches can be properly worn, but it is not a requirement.(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

[Scoutfish]

Big time tongue in cheek!

 

I know that if National hada meeting tommorow and voted with a result of 1005 in favort of uniforms, then published it in every single newpaper, tv news and every other source of media( internet, i phones, twitter, stone tablets, etc,....) - and did it every day for a month...somebody would argue that they really meant only during pow wows!

 

LOL!

 

Settle it once and for all! LMAO!

[Basementdweller]

I wasn't looking for a debate, I was looking for a link to back either side.

 

Here it looks like it maybe required

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/FAQS/supplies.aspx#aa

 

Here maybe not

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/Uniform.aspx

[SSScout]

By implication, the policy of uniforming by the greater BSA authority should apply to the parts, ie., Cubs. The uniform is one of the methods, no argument there. The reason for the methods should not be in argument. The REQUIREMENT for a uniform is in argument.

Mr. James E. West, the first Chief Scout Executive was quoted as saying "As I have said so often, it is not necessary to wear the uniform to be a Scout. It is much more important that you live Scouting in your daily life so that the people who know you best, see in you an embodiment of courtesy, kindness, courage, - in a word, of the Scout Oath and Law....If you do get a uniform, see that it is... correctly worn and that the insignia are correctly placed..."

There are countries where Scouting is highly regarded, but they can afford only the simplest of uniforms. They may wear a colored Tshirt and the neckerchief and are recognized as a Scout.

It is sad that our National office finds it necessary to make folks think one can not be a Scout WITHOUT the uniform.

When I came back to Scouting as CM, (son wanted to be a Cub), I discovered to my surprise that the BSA had changed the Cub uni to include a new uni EACH YEAR. New hat, new necker, more money. I am surprised parents haven't revolted and not bought the extra stuff. I know many Packs and Troops have opted for blue jeans as uni pants, rather than the "official" uni pants. Thankfully, the new ones ("switchbacks")are more practical in many ways, and more poular with the Scouts.

Put your efforts and money into the PROGRAM. Take your Cubs places and do things. Encourage the uniform, but don't require it to the detriment of the boy's participation.

[DYB-Mike]

Thanks for those links Basementdweller; they do put an interesting light on things.

 

At minimum, each boy in Cub Scouting will need a uniform and a handbook.

 

Definitions (Websters Dictionary for Students) for will include is or are commanded to, order, decree. It sounds pretty definitive that the Cub Scout (at least) must have a uniform.

 

The leaders of Scoutingvolunteer and professionalshould promote the wearing of the correct, complete uniform on all suitable occasions.

 

Definitions (Websters Dictionary for Students) for should include ought to and less assured form of shall.

 

So, it looks like the BSA is saying that a Cub Scout must have a uniform, but leaders dont really have to push the issue, but it would be the right thing to do if they did?

 

Clear as mud.

 

YIS

Mike

 

[Basementdweller]

I shake my head at this nonsense......Either it is required or it is not.

 

 

[jhankins]

Even if it was required, it's not difficult to get uniforms for boys if you approach it the right way.

 

1) Hand-me-down library for boys who grow out of their shirts

2) Parent who shops flea markets, swap meets and thrift stores for old shirts and patches

3) Approaching COs for donations for uniforms or trading service for donations for uniforms

4) Uniform pieces as raffle items

5) Scout stores usually have uniforms turned in for donations

 

My pack and troop gather uniforms and offer them to every unit in the district should they have a financial need Scout. $12 will get them a shirt and as many patches as possible, $20 will get them a shirt, hat and neckerchief.

[Scoutfish]

 

 

 

I disagree! it SHOULD be required or not, but depending which chapter of which book of policy or guidlines that you happen to be looking at.. BSA implies that uniforms are indeed required, it's just that you can't require them or act on anybody who does not have them! LOL!

[Scoutfish]

I saw a qouted rule/regulation/ policy about this once, but wondered where I saw it, Flipping through my books, I could not find it. It started getting on my nerves! LOL!

 

Then just a few minutes ago, I stumbled across it. I am qouting Old Grey Eagle who was qouting:

 

""Advancement and Recognition Policies and Procedures"

 

So while I cannot specifically qoute or reference an exact source, I think there is no actual requirement , just a really really big "want".

BSA Publication 33088, 2010 Printing, it says this on page 27 regarding Boards of Review and the uniform

 

"The Scout should be neat in his appearance; however, a uniform is not required. Local boards

of review may not make up their own rules about wearing a uniform."

 

Yep, this was ( as I read it) specifically about a BOR. It may be the same policy organazation wide or may have just been specifically to the BOR.

 

Searches through Google, MSN and BSA ( scouting.org) did not turn up any results other than the basic line which is:

 

"Wearing the Uniform

 

In general, every Cub Scout should wear his uniform to all Cub Scouting activities, including den and pack meetings, unit outings, and any activities done with members of the den or pack. When playing sports, going to camp, or participating in other physical activities, a pack may opt to have the Cub Scouts wear an alternate uniform, such as an activity shirt. Pack leaders should provide advance notice of any occasion when the boys should wear anything other than the complete uniform."

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/Uniform/Parents.aspx

 

And after reading the paragraphs preceding and following the above ones...

 

it is my OPINION that in plain language, BSA is saying:

 

"You really ought to wear a uniform, and if you do, wear it right. But if you don't wear it, we are not gonna ingore you or kick you out because even though the uniform is a source of pride, BSA's purpose, intentions, and goals are bigger than just a uniform."

 

Again, just my uniformed opinion!

(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

[SSScout]

Scoutfish speaks my mind.

 

If Scouting IS the uniform, then there will be no Scouting as we know it. The Uniform SUPPORTS Scouting, it does not define it. I say again, it is unfortunate that it appears National seems to REQUIRE the uniform in order to be a Scout. Going back to Scouting's origins, it was recognized that the Uniform certainly represents Scouting, much like a flag represents the organization(nation, state, VFD, school, Troop).

If the Pack or Troop makes Scouting the goal, the boys will want to be Uniformed. But to absolutely require, or you are not a Scout, no, that is not right, not the intent of the founder, not a realization of the ideals.

Help the boys be uniformed, but require it or else? Not right.