Belt loop/pin frustration with buying & record-keeping

[TigerLisa]

I hope this works...tried twice yesterday and both posts were corrupted.

 

I am wondering how other packs handle the process of buying/recording awards with their council office? For the record, we do not use any pack mgmt. software. We use the Trax spreadsheets within our dens to track requirements and awards, but when it comes to buying stuff for the pack meeting, we have (until now) done everything on paper. Our Advancement Chair filled out advancement reports by hand for every single thing, from rank badges down to belt loops. This is what our council store required. Not only was it a tremendous amount of work (we average 50 very active Scouts), but things tended to fall through the cracks...a recent check of Scoutnet showed numerous missing awards that never made it from paper to the computer.

 

We are now trying to get away from the handwriting and do things in a more efficient way -- using internet advancement for rank awards and filling out an electronic order form on the Scoutnet site for all of the other stuff. I thought we were being really clever. I did the awards myself for the first time last month, so I submitted the internet advancement report, printed 2 copies, filled out the order form online and printed that...took it all to the Scout office and got my stuff. No problem! Except the person who helped me wasn't following their procedures because he is new. Now I am told I will need an advancement report for every Scout earning a belt loop or pin -- filled out manually. The online unit order form is not adequate because it doesn't list Scout names. I found a version of form 33403 (advancement report) that someone created as a fillable PDF file, but it still has to be filled out for each Scout and then printed. Crazy!

 

From everything I have read, BSA doesn't care who earns what belt loop or pin...they are not required for rank (except in the case of some activity badges, and in that case, the activity badge is the award). They are just "things you earn for doing something" as I heard someone here say it. Even from an inventory control standpoint, I can see needing documentation of *how many* of a belt loop you bought, but why do they care who it is for? It's just more paper to shove in a box somewhere so nobody can look at it for 7 years.

 

I told my DE that I could just buy belt loops online from Scoutstuff.org and they won't ask me who earned it. Why should we have this ridiculous paperwork burden for something that doesn't matter?

 

I wish venting made me feel better...does every council have this requirement? Maybe I'm being too demanding?

[ScoutNut]

Belt loops are NOT restricted items. There is no need for them to be included on the advancement form. It sounds like you have a Council, not National, owned shop. The next time you are in the Shop ask to speak to the Shop Manager about their procedures.

 

You might also consider getting a Pack Management system. They are a BIG help in many different ways.

 

 

[NJEaglemom]

Our Council doesn't. I volunteer at the Scout Service Center and one of the things I do is enter advancements. All we require is rank badges, Webelos pins and extra awards like Conservation, Outdoor Activity etc. There is no code for belt loops in the software that the BSA uses to record advancement, at least as far as our Council is concerned. I thought the software was universal. If so, your Council must want it for their own record keeping.

[TigerLisa]

Ah, I did not know there were Council- and National-owned shops. I bet you are right, ScoutNut, and that is why they are able to set their own rules for this stuff. It actually was the store manager who confirmed this requirement to me.

 

We are slowly dragging our pack, kicking and screaming, into modern times. I would love to implement pack management software while I am here, but we are not quite there yet. Thank you!

[Scoutfish]

If you want to avoid un-necessary paperwork, you could order beltloops and pins online from scoutstuff online store. Just fill out the order form and give them a CC #. Of course, you will pay shipping and handling though.

 

But sometimes.... a little extra $ is worth not having the hassle or headache. You just have to decide HOW MUCH is TOO MUCH.

[Basementdweller]

Do yourself a huge favor and spend the money on Pack management software.

 

One pack I am involved with uses scout tracks and the other Pack Master.

 

I like Scout tracks better, it is less expensive too. It is a Web based and everyone can easily access the data.....plus the parents can enter their scouts achievements and belt loops. Scout tracks prints the form you turn into council for rank advancement, a distribution list and a shopping list.

 

Belt loops we had to have a talk with our parents regarding a scout is trust worthy. setting some ground rules.

[TigerLisa]

I will have to look at the various pack management software options. If the software did not allow you to fill out the advancement report (Form 33403) with belt loop and pin information, we would still have to manually fill out forms for those items. I agree about ordering from scoutstuff.org...too bad they don't offer free shipping, but it may very well be worth it to avoid these hassles.

[ScoutNut]

The Pack management programs all have a free trial period of about 1 month. That way you can poke around in them and see just what they do without forking over any $$. My Pack uses Pack Manage, an online program.

 

One thing any of these programs will do, besides filling out the advancement form for you, is to enable you to print out a list of who earned what awards for the month. This list usually includes the Scouts name, den, and award. You can export the info to an Excel spreadsheet, and sort it any way you want to. For award presentation I sort it by den, then Scout. I can easily get each Scout's awards together, and keep the den together as well. For your Scout Shop's purposes, sort the list just by the Scout's name. That will give you an alphabetical list of every Scout and each of his awards for the month. Give them this, along with the Advancement Report and it should make them happy.

 

If they balk at the list, then there is a bigger problem here that should be addressed by your COR at the District/Council Committee meetings!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Eagle92]

As someone else mentioned, belt loops and sports pins are not restricted items and the therefore do NOT need an advancement report. I would ask to speak to the manager of your local council's distributorship as it may be a new employee or one who was not trained properly.

 

IF your council does require ARs for them, a few options exist. 1 order from Scoutstuff.org as they are available there without the paperwork 2) order from another local council and 3find the nearest nationally owned Scoutshop and order from them. Service is usally faster and better from a shop than the warehouse in Charlotte.

[Basementdweller]

Lisa, Belt loops and pins do not get recorded at the council level. The council does not care one bit if Johny earned his BB belt loop. They do care if he earned his bobcat, wolf, gold and silver arrow points. Webelos activity badges are recorded as well.

 

Scout tracks will print out a shopping list for you that will include the belt loops and pins.

 

[TigerLisa]

Thank you to everyone who has replied...I am glad to at least know I'm not crazy in thinking this should not be this way.

 

I have actually spoken to the store manager about this -- she was adamant that their policy (the council office) is that ALL sports and academic belt loops and pins MUST be filled out on an advancement report showing the Scout earning the item and the date. When I said that I was under the impression that the BSA did not keep track of this stuff, she said, "But WE do." This is not a person I want to irritate, so I let it go at that. I then went to my DE and asked if he could find out more about this policy and explained our frustration. No word from the DE yet.

 

It's a double-edged sword...while I'd like to go up the chain of command and get a silly policy abolished, it would come with the risk of ticking off a person that we rely on for a lot of other things (the store mgr). It sounds like our council store is definitely in the minority with this policy, so I have the choice to accept it and quit complaining, buy our products elsewhere and spend pack $ on shipping costs, or make waves that could possibly cause heartburn down the road. Either way, I am definitely going to investigate some pack mgmt. software tools.

[rdclements]

Good suggestions about ordering online.

If you have a busy unit, get a tackle box and keep a few of the most common items on hand. Then you're not rushing to fill an order to meet a deadline, just restocking.

 

Many units do this so that they can present rank insignia as soon as possible after it is earned, rather than waiting for an individual patch to get purchased.

 

-R

[AKdenldr]

Hold the phone,

 

Basement dweller said, "The council does not care one bit if Johny earned his BB belt loop. They do care if he earned his bobcat, wolf, gold and silver arrow points. Webelos activity badges are recorded as well."

 

Really, because I didn't see any arrow points or Web activity badges on the council advancement report? Amy I missing something?

[TigerLisa]

If you want to get really technical, the BB gun belt loop was probably not a good example because it is a restricted item in the sense that it can only be earned at a BSA-sanctioned day camp or overnight camp. But yes, the gold and silver arrow points as well as Webelos activity badges are all on the advancement report.

[Basementdweller]

I would say yes to missing something, I don't know what to tell you, I would call your council office and have them run an advancement report for you, you would probably be surprised what is missing.

 

Prior to Scout Tracks we used Scoutnet which is the official BSA internet advancement solution. It is free Lisa, call your district executive and ask for access, he will be thrilled. But I digress

 

Scoutnet prints webelos activity badges and all arrow points on the advancement report.

 

Scout tracks does prints arrow points and AB as well and if I remember correctly so did Pack Master.

 

The BB belt loop is not restricted, you can walk in and buy it. Supposedly you are restricted in earning it, but plenty of Packs in our area own their own BB guns and archery equipment.