Martial Arts Demonstration?

[AnaMaria]

I know the with very limited exceptions, martial arts are not approved Cub Scout activities. But what about demonstrations? What about self-defense information?

 

For the record, I don't care much one way or the other, but we have a couple of leaders who would like this to happen and were unaware it was an issue.

[MNBob]

When my son was a Tiger we went as a den for a karate lesson at the dojo/school that one of the other Tigers belonged to. It didn't meet any requirements but was just a fun den outing. That parent always wondered why martial arts was not a belt loop. Does BSA provide a policy justification for this anywhere? We knew we wouldn't earn any requirements but we never considered whether we were violating some BAS policy by attending.

[dg98adams]

Tigers to a Karate lesson? There is a reason it did not fulfill any Tiger requirements.

 

This is from the Guide to Safe Scouting, which should have been address in the Tiger Den leader training or at least when organizing the "go see it".

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss09.aspx#e

 

Unauthorized and Restricted Activities

 

The following activities have been declared unauthorized and restricted by the Boy Scouts of America:

 

* Boxing, karate, and related martial artsexcept judo, aikido, and Tai Chiare not authorized activities.

[MNBob]

Thank you dg98adams. As I said, we knew it was not in the handbook and we knew it was not a belt loop. The Tiger Den Leader at the time had already had a son go through Cub Scouts but he never told us that the activity was restricted.

 

Thanks for linking to the guide. The other part of my question still stands, what is the justification for this BSA policy?

 

I can only assume that BSA is not able to verify every single program and therefore it is easier to just not support any of them. My Webelos son is currently in karate and the program is value-oriented and focuses on self-defense. I see nothing in the program that would be at odds with Scouting. My youngest is going to be a Tiger and I was considering a fun den meeting similar to what my oldest did when he was a Tiger. Now that I see the policy we apparently cannot do that as an "official" den outing.

[ScoutNut]

Going to see a demonstration is fine. There should be no problem with that.

 

Participating in it is another thing altogether.

 

BSA does not allow martial arts like karate because of the physical contact between people. This is the same reason there is a belt loop for FLAG football, and not for TOUCH football.

 

 

[MNBob]

"No contact" can't be the justification ScoutNut:

Judo, Tai Chi, and Aikido

If Scouts and Venturers practice defensive judo, Tai Chi, or aikido, it should be done with proper mats and with qualified instructors related to YMCAs, colleges, or athletic clubs whose objectives and coaching methods are compatible with the principles of the Boy Scouts of America.

 

[CNYScouter]

I was just asked this by one of the Cubs in my Den parent about not being a karate belt loop.

 

 

Here is a link to "Why isn't there a belt loop for Karate or other martial arts?"I/i>

 

http://www.usscouts.org/advance/CubScout/sports/karate.asp

 

from the page:

 

Back in 1974, the Boy Scouts of America's National Executive Board decided on a listing of team and individual sports which it felt was not consistent with the ideals and promotion of sportsmanship that Scouting is promoting. They didn't say that "these sports are bad" or "Scouts should never participate in these sports" but rather "these sports have the potential for extreme harm while playing the sport and therefore we will prohibit them from being played as part of a BSA program or program option."

[MNBob]

Thank you CNYScouter

[dg1132]

I think it's a double standard to allow aikido and contact judo and exclude karate and tae kwon do. Most karate and similar arts have within their training a system of forms or katas that are completely no-contact. Aikido is a very agressive joint manipulation art and judo can cause as much injury as any martial art. It shouldn't be to much of a stretch for BSA to include martial arts that involve the use of forms/katas and other no-contact practice. Katas and forms have less contact than basketball, touch football, and several other BSA allowed sports.

[Eagle1982]

A martial arts program that is only kata, without the practice of the bunkai (self defense techniques), randori and kumite (sparring), is not a real martial arts program.

 

Many martial arts rely on impact (punching, kicking, knees, elbows...) as their main form of defense. These martial arts are the Karate's, Tae Kwon Do, Kenpo, Kung Fu... - the intent is to cause harm by striking people.

 

If scouts aren't allowed to have laser tag, or marshmallow gun wars against each other, they certainly won;t be allowed to smack each other. I believe it's the intent of the action, not whether you are doing the complete action.

 

Mostly I agree.

 

 

[DeanRx]

Unfortunately, its just another of BSA's contradictions in its espoused values vs its reality in policy.

 

Respect and kindness to all (idea) = execpt for gays and non-believers (policy)

 

Teach a kid to shoot BB, 22-cal, archery (idea and policy) = no hunting, no marshmallow guns (even though our council gave then out as Popcorn prizes this year), no lazer tag, and no water gun fights (even though our council's recruitment flyer last year showed a picture of one at scout camp)policy.

 

Martial arts beltloop (idea is its bad, might be violent) = video game beltloop (those never show violence in them) - this in an age when we are fighting youth obesity and have new ht/Wt standards that would exclude the Chief Scout Exec. from participation at Philmont!

 

You can WATCH martial arts, you can WATCH certain COPE / adventure stuff, you can LEARN about proper boating techniques, canoeing and kyaking, but if you're under age 14 - that's all you can do!! You can't DO any of them, not safe until that magical age.

 

You need to know survival techniques (idea) = but we'll just talk about them at camp b/c to actually BUILD an improvised shelter has too great an environmental impact (policy)

 

Its sad - but a sign of the times when every activity is looked upon from a "what's the worst thing that could happen" mentality. Martial Arts falls into that category. Someone, somwhere, in the far removed halls of BSA policy-making decided that certain martial arts are OK and others are no-no's based on either the FEAR of an injury, or the FEAR that it would teach aggression and violence.

 

Oh one more, BSA exists to raise self-reliant, BRAVE young men (idea) = BSA is often too AFRAID something might go wrong to offer the very adventures / challenges boys crave and need to become BRAVE young men (policy)

[evmori]

There is nothing wrong with a martial arts demo. When I was a Cubmaster, we had a local martial arts school put on a demo at our Blue & Gold. The boys loved it!

[shortridge]

As long as it's not a Marital Arts demo, you should be fine.

 

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DeanRx wrote: "You need to know survival techniques (idea) = but we'll just talk about them at camp b/c to actually BUILD an improvised shelter has too great an environmental impact (policy)"

 

Is this your council's or camp's policy? Yeesh. I wish they'd read the Wilderness Survival MB requirements...