Tiger Badge without Earning it

[ScoutNut]

Yes, "They participate , they get the badge." NOT they are registered - so they get the badge no matter what.

 

1st grade, or college, the boy has to actually DO SOMETHING in order to EARN an award.

 

Yes, if "Akela" signs off on it, it is completed, and the Cub Scout gets credit for it.

 

However if a requirement was NOT covered at any den meeting, or if it was, and the Scout was NOT at the den meeting when the requirement was done, and NO ONE has signed off on the requirement in the Scouts Handbook, you can NOT simply say - hey he is registered, he participated in some stuff, so we will go ahead and say he participated in everything, completed everything, and give him an award.

 

That is NOT the BSA program. How exactly does doing that jell with Cub Scouting's Core Values of Courage, Honesty, Perseverance, or Responsibility?

 

The BSA Scouting program states that awards must be EARNED. Give your Cub Scouts the opportunity to do just that - EARN their award. There is still plenty of time left for them to do it.

 

Work WITH the parents, explain the program. How much time can it really take to talk to your son about the weather on the way to school in the morning, or talk to him at the dinner table about his day, or watch a sport together on TV? Stress to the parents that they need to attend meetings. Re-do things in den meetings in different ways. The boys who have already finished still have fun, and the scout who needs the requirement gets it done. Put the Tiger Team that needs requirements in charge of a meeting covering one of the requirements they need.

 

The program is flexible. Use that flexibility, don't just toss out the program.

 

[MNBob]

Put me in the cold-hearted bastage den leader category. To those who way Cub Scouts is not about advancement then why is the Cub Scouts 2010 program changing entirely to den meeting plans that lead towards advancement? I can only go by my own experience but the dens that have advancing boys stick together while those that do not spend much time working on requirements have had the most turn over in our Pack.

 

I'll go out of my way to communicate with parents about what their Scout needs to complete in order to advance. I'll send reminders ad nauseum until I feel like I'm actually being a pest. As a Webelos leader I've had my Scouts share completed requirements in front of the whole den so that others could learn from what they did and possibly think "Oh, that's what I need to do". When a Scout has trouble articulating what he actually did (sometimes leading me to wonder if he truly did all of the work) I provided helpful prompts sometimes to the point of answering my questions for them. I then signed off.

 

At the same time if a Scout didn't do anything to complete a requirement I wasn't going to give them credit just to avoid hurt feelings at awards time. I made that very clear to Scouts and parents. For those of you who seem to think that participating is all it takes does every single Webelos scout earn Arrow of Light and Super achiever simply for being a member of the den until cross over?

[Adam S]

ScoutNut, I quoted the book simply to do that... That said it is also BSA policy to not add or REMOVE requirements.

 

It would be adding a requirement if they genuinely tried to complete an acheievement, but could not do so successfully and you did not give them credit.

it would be removing a requirement to simply give the award...

 

It seems a pretty easy line to draw to me "Do your best" That's the whole point of Cub Scouts right?

 

I do absolutely agree that if you did not do the work you do not get the achievement.

 

 

[WestCoastScouter]

I agree that you must at least try... A First grader is obviously going to be doing everything with a parent... most of them are just learning to read !

 

So if mom or dad does not go along to the Go See Its, or does not complete the other requirements, then no award. Even for Tigers its an award, not a paid-your-dues patch. Yet, every opportunity should be given to allow a parent to make up a missing item by the end of the school year. We are in February right now, then still have four months? Is there a rush to get it done by the B&G ?

[Aegis]

As a new Tiger Cub dad I am just learning about the system and traditions involved in cub scouting.

 

We will be having our Blue and Gold banquet this Saturday. Most of the Tigers, including my son, have earned their badge and will be receiving it at the event. There was definitely a push to get as many of the boys as we could to meet the requirements by the date of the banquet. I assume it's because the event is the most celebratory, and the Webelos advancement is such a big event.

 

That said, I don't think any of the Tigers that are short on their requirements will be getting their badge. The Den Leader has been getting final updates on our progress this last week before the banquet, so I feel he is going to award the badges appropriately.

 

All of the parents have been working together to help all the Tigers meet requirements. I happen to work for the local police department, so I have been arranging tours for Tigers that missed the police/fire department go see it. One of the other dads works at the local paper, and he has been running tours there for boys who didn't make it when the den went.

 

I'm not in a leadership position, but I feel that the boy and his partner should at least put forth the effort to attempt the requirements before being awarded the badge. There are only 15 beads to earn to get the Tiger Cub badge. With the assistance of the rest of the den (the pack helps the Cub Scout grow) I don't see much problem with getting those 15 requirements met.

 

It might be nice to have all the boys get their badge at the same ceremony, but they didn't earn their Bobcat badge at the same time and that didn't cause any problems. As long as the den gets recognized as a group I don't see a problem with getting the Tiger Cub badge at the next pack meeting. I know I'll clap just as loud for the boys, no matter when they earn the badge.

[Scoutfish]

 

 

Having re-read the above statement, I will again say give the patches to the kids. You would not be GIVING them the patches as they have earned them!

 

They participated, so under BSA guidlines.. they completed the requirements.

 

Now, here's where it get's tricky:

 

We need to determine what is actually happening. Is the pack just "giving" away the patches or is that Old School's personal opinion as he sees it? Seeing as some parents made their kids completely finish the requirements, anything less may be ( in their opinion) not completed.

 

But fortunatly for the other kids...those parents opinions do not hold weight over BSA's opinion of what completed meant.

 

Sometimes when we go the extra mile, we inadvertantly move the bar higher without realizing it. Some parents in my pack do not consider getting your rank badge good enough for the year, but expect a few arrow points and at least 3 or 4 belt loops too to have "Earned" your rank.

 

To them, anything less is giving the patch away. I am soooo glad they do not write BSA policy.

 

The Tiger Cub patch is earned by participating (which also satisfies completion) in den and pack and whatever else your tiger den has planned.

 

 

now we can argue about wether or not forms are signed off or not, but that is 100% speculation and guessing on our part since that was not stated in the original post. Old School never said that the Den leader gave out patches even though requirements were not signed off. and as other pointed out, not being signed off might also just be because it was accidentally forgotten.

[DYB-Mike]

Scoutfish, I dont think it was speculation. In one of the posts Old School Scout states I know that the boy hasn't finished quite a few of the requirements because I went through his book as I spoke with his parent. who by the way said that she doesn't have enough time to help her boy with all the requirements.

 

Its one thing for the Tiger or Cub Scout parent to produce a book with all of the requirements signed off, which you should accept even if you have some doubts about his or her veracity, but when the parent admits that they have havent completed them I dont think its right that you respond Well, OK, but since little Jimmy showed up Ill give him his rank badge anyway.

 

The requirements need to completed to the best of the scouts ability and Akela (the parent) needs to sign off. If Akela is admitting that work needs to be done, then kudos to Akela for his or her honesty. Thats a fine example for the scout to see. Now its time to help Akela get things done.

 

YIS

Mike

 

[Scoutfish]

page 18 of the Tiger Handbook *****Simply participating in the activities and doing his best constitutes completion.*****

 

 

 

You sure will unless he just sat in the corner without "participating". And you are not giving it, he earned it.

 

Particip[ation is the prerequisit for completion. That's all! If the Tiger Cub participates.... he HAS COMPLETED the requirements.

 

Now, don't assume I mean he came to the meeting, so give him a badge. I'm not gonna hand one out to the kid who does nothing but run up and down the hallways all night.

 

But you are talking 1st graders too, not high school Sr's or College Jr's. If you can keep that boy's attention for even half the meeting.. I'm pretty damn impressed

 

 

If the Tiger cub makes an honest effort, then he's participated. It does not say he has to complete a line item list of requirements. It doesn not say "Finish all of these completely to your pack or the other Tiger cub's parents satisfaction.

 

page 18 of the Tiger Handbook does state that ""Simply participating in the activities and doing his best constitutes completion." It also states that there are no *"performance requirements"* , and that Cub Scouts should NOT be tested.

 

For the speculation part, I meant in general, and not specifically to this post. Seems to be a constant thing in here that everybody assumes the worst of any Cub/Boy scout about anything.

 

I could say a cub missed "a" meeting, and before the night is over... somebody would ask why we are even talking about a chronic absentee in the first place. Know what I mean?

[ScoutNut]

>>"

 

Having re-read the above statement, I will again say give the patches to the kids. You would not be GIVING them the patches as they have earned them!

 

They participated, so under BSA guidlines.. they completed the requirements. ">"Emphasize that the adult partner signs the book in the appropriate place when a required or elective activity is completed. A boys participation in THE ACTIVITY along with the adult partner is the criterion for completion.">"now we can argue about wether or not forms are signed off or not, but that is 100% speculation and guessing on our part since that was not stated in the original post.">"all but one of the boys show up for every Den/Packmeeeting and go see it""I know that the boy hasn't finished quite a few of the requirements because I went through his book as I spoke with his parent."

[ScoutNut]

>>" It does not say he has to complete a line item list of requirements.">"A boy earns beads by working on the five Tiger Cub achievements.">"For each achievement, the Tiger Cubadult partner team must complete a den activity, a family activity, and a Go See It.">"As a boy completes each part of the achievements, he will be awarded either an orange, white, or black bead">"When the boy has earned all five white beads, all five orange beads, and all five black beads, he is eligible to receive his Tiger Cub badge.">"The Tiger Cub badge is for boys who complete all parts of the five achievements and earn their 15 beads."

[Scoutfish]

Bad choice of words on my part. By line item,I meant that there is not a set of established steps to each requirement (thinking like a contractor here: foundation, flooring, outer walls , roof, dry in, shetrock, finish trim, carpet, CO, closing.)

 

In Tigers, the requirement is ether complete or not. One definition as declaired by BSA is participation.

 

Perticipation in a requirement = completion of said requirement.

Participation in a requirement IS completion of said requirement.

 

That ia not giving a free ride or sweeping requirements aside. It IS following BSA rules concerning Tiger Cub participation and completion of Tiger cub requirements.

 

Nowhere did I ever say give them the badge just for the sake of giving it or just because they smiled real nicely.

 

Those tiger cubs showed up, they participated. They met the requirement.

 

TRhe biggest concern I'd have here is wether parents understand what constitutes "completion of a Tiger Cub requirement as BSA has outlined it as compared to what a den leader might say it means. That parent may think the son hasn't come close , but based on what other parents said instead of what BSA said.

 

But looking at the bigger scheme of things.. these are indeed 1st graders that I would think any pack would want to have back as Wolves.

 

But hold these guys to standards above and beyond what BSA does... you're gonna lose alot of kids.

 

This is a Tiger Cub badge, not a license to practice brain surgery or open heart surgery.

 

They show up, they "Do THIER( not our) best" ...they met the requirement!

 

Yes, it's that simple!

[Scoutfish]

 

 

Not my exact words if you were qouting me , but that is exactly what I was saying!

 

 

[MNBob]

Scoutfish: I think nearly everyone is agreeing that if a Scout shows up while a requirement is being worked on that constitutes completing the requirement. But some of us are not talking about those requirements, we're talking about the family requirements that need to be done at home.

 

Lets look at Tiger achievement 2 as an example:

2. Where I Live

2F - Family Activity

Look at a map of your community with your adult partner.

2D - Den Activity

Practice the Pledge of Allegiance with your den, and participate in a den or pack flag ceremony.

Character Connection: Citizenship

2G - Go See It Activity

Visit a police station or a fire station. Ask someone who works there how he or she helps people in your community.

 

If the Scout is in attendance when 2D and 2G are done with the den then those requirements are completed. But if the Scout never does 2F and Akela (parent) never signs off on the requirement then Achievemnt 2 has not been completed.

[ScoutNut]

>>"Not my exact words if you were qouting me , but that is exactly what I was saying!"

[Scoutfish]

I never said that participation in "some" requirements was the same as all requirements.

 

Somehow, I think one of my commenst to the post Brent mad was mistaken and we are actually arguing two different parts of one subject.

 

My only point I have argues (although misunderstood) is that completion of a requirement is determined by participation.

Not that showing up for a few equal completion of the whole list of requirements.

 

TRhis is truely a case where hearing somebody's tone would make the difference. Especially seeing as how I tend to leave out a letter, word or comma everynow and then.

 

 

Point is, I will not require a Tiger Cub to test and give any number of specific answers to ant one requirement or break a requirement doen into sub groups ( a,b, c,or d.)

 

If he showed up and actively participated during the meeting or activity of that requirement, then he has completed it.

 

Now, I will - right here and now apologize for not actually making sure that each of my posts was fully understaood in the way I was actually thinking it.

 

But at the same time, I cannot say that I will step back when in a few circumstances, I made a specific reference and was argues back with a different one.

 

Specifically in this case: ""Do your best" does not override the fact that requirements cannot be changed.

 

Requirements as written must be met to earn an award.

 

It's right there in the advancement policies book... "No council, district, unit or individual has the authority to add or subtract from advancement requirements."

 

Now, I NEVER said anything about changing any requirement, but instead was arguing exactly what BSA said. I think it was at this point that my arguement was misunderstod, as I was argueing that (according to BSA) participation was following the requirement.

 

At this point, my comment was misunderstood as "Simple participation met all requirements?

 

But I never said it.

 

Anyways, it's all good. Not sure about the rest of you, but I enjoy arguing as much as the next guy, even if I am misunderstood! LOL!

 

One more thing: Don't take my comments as hostile or hatefull. I do not mean or intend for them to sound that way.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)