Tiger Badge without Earning it

[Snow_White]

OSS -

 

Welcome to the forums, and welcome to Cub Scouting. I'm glad to hear that your Tigers are having a good year. Lots of good advice given in this thread already.

 

I'm curious as to where this pressure is really originating - is it coming from a Tiger parent who doesn't want their son to feel left out? Is it the CM/pack leaders who have perhaps "always done it this way"?

 

Another thing that you may want to look at - I have heard from other packs in our district that they have issues with attendance dropping off in the spring due to sports and other activities, so for all intents and purposes their program year is over when they award rank badges at the B&G. (I think this is sort of a chicken and egg situation, but that's just a personal opinion...) Is there a similar situation in your pack?

 

 

 

[Lisabob]

Snow White, that is kind of scary that there are packs whose programs basically end after the blue and gold. Around here, most packs don't really get off the ground until October (school starts after labor day, round ups are held in early October, first pack meeting might be mid October). If they closed up shop in February, the kids would get a whole 4 or 5 months' worth of program.

 

(OK, sorry about the hijack, but I just thought WOW when I saw your comment.)

[OldSchool Scout]

I also don't understand this end of school year means end of scouts untill September thing.I have been told that I can hold den meetings in the summer ,but there are no official pack meetings at all.?? Isn't the summer the best time to be invovled with scouting?

[Snow_White]

Lisa,

 

I had the same reaction when I heard this brought up at Roundtable. The question was "How can we get families to participate in the spring? No one come comes to anything they get their rank badges at the B&G."

 

My thoughts - (1) Don't focus on getting everyone to earn rank for the B&G. (2) Plan some Spring activities that folks will be interested in participating in.

 

(Sorry for hijack continuation...)

 

 

[DYB-Mike]

Old School Scout,

 

The Cub Scout Year usually mirrors the school year, beginning in September and ending in May or June. Some packs are active in the summer, but many, our Pack included, just organize special events (no pack or den meetings) in order to earn the Summertime Activity Award. A Cub Scout can earn this award if he participates in at least one Pack summer event in the months of June, July and August.

 

I have always been of the philosophy that, as the Cub Scout Year begins in September, a boy has until August 31st to earn his rank. Its nice to get the ranks at the Blue and Gold, but as others have said, the ranks should be given as earned. Those who dont make it by then should be encouraged to keep at it. I'm a Wolf Den Leader and our Blue and Gold is this coming Sunday (God willing if we dont get another snow storm). I have nine boys registered to my Den and only two, maybe three, are getting the rank at the B&G. I have told the other boys and their parents no to be discouraged and keep working as theres always the next Pack Meeting and they understand and are OK with it.

 

We always give out at least a generic Blue and Gold patch to each scout so nobody gets left out.

 

I can only second what others have said about awarding ranks. As long as the boy attends the meetings, participates in the activities and does his best while participating, he should get his rank. Work with the parents and Tigers on alternatives for missed activities or Go-See-Its and be as flexible as possible as long as you can feel that you are not compromising the requirements.

 

YIS

Mike

 

 

 

 

[MNBob]

I don't know for sure, but I am willing to bet that part of the issue here is that we are in blue & gold season. For reasons I don't understand, many (most?) pack leaders are under the impression that rank awards should be presented at blue and gold, come hell or high water.I agree completely. When we first joined our Pack 5 years ago this was the big push (all ranks by B&G). Not only does it make it difficult for some dens to finish in time but also it tends to change Blue & Gold from a party to a long advancement ceremony. We have since changed things and hold a "graduation" pack meeting in May. Scouts may have earned rank badges earlier but we hand out new neckerchiefs and the next rank handbooks to all of the current Tigers, Wolves and Bears.

 

Re: earning Tiger badges. One large part of Tiger requirements is the family portion. While I agree completely that attending and participating even if the Scout does not really seem able to complete the requirement is good enough to sign off for in person requirements, I fail to see how that would apply to the other non den requirements. At the same time every den leader runs into the parent who suddenly turns in a fully completed book or list of requirements knowing full well that some of those at home, family requirements probably were not done. But that counts too. It's not the kids fault mom/dad wasn't willing to assist them with their requirements. And it's definitely not worth the fight for a den leader to suggest the parent might be lying. Now if the Scout continues on to Webelos things may get a little more difficult once the den leader is the person who signs off on all requirements but that doesn't apply to Tigers (or Wolves or Bears).(This message has been edited by MNBob)

[CalicoPenn]

I'm curious as to what requirements you know that some Tiger's are missing, and how you know they're missing. There are 15 requirements in Tiger achievements - of those, 6 are Den activities - and 5 of them could conceivably be completed in one den meeting (how long does it take to make a leaf rubbing? Create a food pyramid? Practice the Pledge of Allegiance and participate in a Den Flag Ceremony?). One of those 6 is a Den Hike - no one's asking the Tigers to do a 5 mile slog up Pork Chop Hill here - the Den Hike could be completed by taking a nature hike to a local pond at a Den Meeting, or by combining a hike to the fire station with a visit to the fire station (Wow - two Go See Its in one trip).

 

Of the other 9 requirements, none of them require that they be done as part of the Den - they can all be done by the family, and signed off by the Akela in the family. There is no requirement that the Go See Its be done as a Den (except for the Den Hike). If the parents have signed off - consider it a done deal.

 

I once watched as a mother, frustrated that her son wasn't going to get his Bear badge with everyone else in his Den, and knowledgable about the process, went through his book and signed off on pretty near every achievement and elective, claiming that her boy did all this and she just didn't get around to doing the paperwork. Did he do all the work? Probably not. Could anyone prove it? No - it was the Akela's word against the CM & DL - and Akela trumps. Was it right? From a moral perspective, most would say no - but from the BSA policy & procedures perspective, yeah it was. Did he get his badge? Yes. Did he get the boatload of arrow points that should have resulted? No - he was given the same amount every one else earned - and Mom didn't make a fuss about it. The boys of the couple of people who grumbled about it being unfair to their sons (and I wouldn't say they were wrong) didn't cross over to Boy Scouts because they just weren't in to it. They didn't even earn the Webelos Badge. This boy? Earned the Arrow of Light and went on to earn his Eagle Scout rank - and did it the old fashioned way - he earrrrned it.

 

I know we want folks to follow the rules - but I've got to say, at 7 years old? Nothing will cause a boy (and family) to burst in to tears and quit faster than watching all his pals get the Tiger Patch at the same time while he doesn't. If it were me, I would give the Boy the patch and get a promise from the parent(s) that he'll complete the missing work for it before the end of the school year.

 

 

 

 

[Scoutfish]

 

 

 

EXACTLY!

 

Bret, I never said I didn't respect the program. I jusy went by the program. If the Tigers show and and "DO THIER BEST"... Then the have met and completed trhe requiremnts for the Tiger badge!

And by giving them that badge, you are not only respecting the program, but are following it!

[OldSchool Scout]

To Calicco , I know that the boy hasn't finished quite a few of the requirements because I went through his book as I spoke with his parent.Who by the way said that she doesn't have enough time to help her boy with all the requirements.Also at the den meetings we have worked on the majority of the requirements and did an extra outside den meeting(that they did not attend) for the Den hike .So please don't assume that the boy and his parent have not had more than ample oppurtunities to finish the requirements with the rest of the den.(This message has been edited by oldschool scout)

[CalicoPenn]

OldSchool - not assuming anything at all - that's why I asked the question I did.

 

I understand how frustrating it can be for the Den Leader - but I stand by my last paragraph - unless you want to lose this child to Scouting (and if we take Mom at her word on the time (single parent??) - then this child may need Cubbing and Scouting in his life), I'd figure out a way to make it work and give him the badge. As AKdenldr said (and quite wisely I might add): "After all, tigers and the tiger parents are learning the game of scouting."

 

[ScoutNut]

>>"If the Tigers show and and "DO THIER BEST"... Then the have met and completed trhe requiremnts for the Tiger badge!"

[Scoutfish]

 

 

Yeah, but that could be said about any cub rank when concerning anything a parent did or didn't sign off on.

How would the CM, CC know if a parent didn't just lie also?

 

Participation is the only requirement. There are no tests or exams. They participate , they get the badge.

 

 

This is 1st grade. Not high school or college. Put thumb screws on a 6 year old and you will not see that boy as a Wolf, Bear, Webelos or Boy Scout. Instead you will see somebody who has a issue with scouting.

 

 

 

 

[OldSchool Scout]

I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

 

(This message has been edited by oldschool scout)

[Eagle92]

I am facing part of this problem now. Scouting is not about advancement, but about giving the cubs the opportunity to grow physically mentally and morally through a series of activities either with the family and/or den. advancement recognized their best attempt at doign the activities.

 

One thin I did tonite while my Tigers were making maps was go over books and have hte tigers come one at a time with their parent. Now some parents have joint custody, which makes collecting books 'challenging", and sometimes signatures even more so.

 

Perfectly good example on was one Tiger, who has missed a few meeting and hasn't had his book to others. Attendance and lack of records was so bad I thought he dropped out. He showed back up after 1.5 months at Scout Sunday with mom and life is good Anyway I finally get his book and stuff that he completed back in October is finally recorded. Also a few items that I remember him doing were NOT recorded in the book, nor in my records (mea culpa on the record keeping, but 23 TCs at one time was a challenge) and I had ask a few questions to confirm what I knew, he did the requirement, and mom/ dad forgot to sign off on it.

 

Sometimes just a few brief questions will answer the questions. BUT if Akela signs it, it is valid.

[Basementdweller]

the boys disappear after getting their ranks at the blue and gold?????? I would adjust the schedule so they didn't earn them till april and award them in may.

 

Eagle factory in the making.