Campground standards

[jhunt5@westga.edu]

I am a BALOO trained outings coordinator in my pack. I have checked with our area council, and have not found any information, and I fill out tour permits which are never denied. I still get questioned regularly by one of the leaders as to whether the campgrounds I pan trips to meet "Cub Scout standards". I've never found any info. regarding this, although I do choose campgrounds with restrooms (outhouses at times) in order to accommodate the moms in the pack, as well as the families who haven't camped often. Are there any standards/ rules governing campground appropriateness?

[NealOnWheels]

Sure,

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/13-508.pdf

 

I am supprised they did not mention this in BALOO training.

[ScoutNut]

Ask if your council has a list of campgrounds approved for Cub Scout camping. I am also surprised this was not covered in your BALOO training. It should have been.

 

I recommend checking out the group camping facilities at your area State Parks.

 

[jhunt5@westga.edu]

Our BALOO was kind of rushed, and more focus was placed on camping basics, I guess. I usually plan trips to State Parks, however I've found that the most affordable trips entail the "pioneer sites", which are always over 300 feet from a "sanitary toilet", with outhouses being the toilet facilities. I'm not sure what classifies as "sanitary", as the outhouse, when treated with Bactigard regularly and wiped down with a sanitary wipe tend to be cleaner than some bricks and mortar campground toilets.

 

Thank you for the checklist. I can honestly say that I've never seen it before, and I'm a very rules oriented person. It makes me evaluate every trip I've taken the boys on thus far.

 

I actually have asked our council office about an approved list, but have been told that there is not one; that I need to submit the tour permit, and it will either be approved or denied, which is what I've been doing. Maybe I've been asking the wrong person?

 

Thanks!

[Twocubdad]

Results vary.

 

When I first became pack committee chairman (a couple years before BALOO was instituted) I saw a reference to "approved campsite" and the inspection sheet in Guide to Safe Scouting. I asked my DE for the list of approved locations and for a copy of the form. He looked at me like there was something growing out of my head. Needless to say, our council doesn't maintain a list of "approved" sites and it took them two weeks to get the form. No on at the council had a copy and they had to order one from supply.

 

They had the same attitude when it came to tour permits. I've always said I could submit a tour permit listing our destination as Hell and it would get approved. I've watched as one of the clerks in the scout shop literally rubber stamped the scout executive's signature on a stack of permits, never bothering to even look at the individual forms. I think they're better about it now. The woman who approves them seem to at least glance over the forms to see if they're complete.

 

Which is all the more reason for folks like yourself to follow procedure, be conscientious, and do you best to deliver a good, safe program to the boys.

[rdclements]

The GA State Park group sites meet the requirements, although many of them are probably more suitable for patrol-style camping rather than a pack outing.

 

Why not use the excellent camps that the council has? They are there for your unit and have the facilities to accommodate family members who might prefer porcelain fixtures. In addition to being free, you also can be sure that the neighbors are scouts. When I was a cubmaster, our pack went to the council camps several times each year. The facilities are large enough that your guys will not tire of them.

 

The Atlanta Council OA Lodge, Egwa Tawa Dee, maintains a "Where to Go Camping?" page at: http://www.aacegwa.org/wtgc.htm

 

-R

[ScoutNut]

Wow, the Atlanta Area Council does not charge units for the use of their campgrounds? Nice!

 

They must charge a chunk of change for their summer camps, or have plenty of money from endowments, or somewhere else, to be able to afford to do that, and still keep their camps up.

 

Our council has always charged everyone, including individual units, who wanted to use any of the camp facilities.

[Basementdweller]

I think you will find that most councils do not actually have the before mentioned list. The answer usually is stay in a state park they are ok and safe.

[DeanRx]

Our local council maintains an approved list for cub family camping on its website. However, if you want to go somewhere else, you can ask to have the alternate location approved.

 

Their main criteria are:

 

1) Toliets (minimum of a KYBO - pit type or port-o-potty), no digging cat holes as a cubbie.

 

2) Potable water source within 500 ft of the campsite area.

 

Basically, you have to have a pit toliet and potable water within a reasonable walking distance of the campsite to have it considered for cub family-camping. Flush toliets are not required, as 99% of the facilities at our local council camp are pit or port-a-johns, and the older cubs do 1/2 week summer camps there.

 

The only other requirements I've ran across is with rgards to adult training requirements for activities in camp. Example- you must have a minimum of ONE adult CPR trained and one Safety Afloat and Safe Swim defense trained adults if you are going to do anything on a boat or go swimming at all. This is in addition to the BALOO, YPG, and Hazardous Weather training that someone in the group must have. But that has to do with activities, not the requirement(s) of the actual campsite.

 

Dean

 

 

[gour0]

I like that site approval form! Showers are a mandatory item. I'll have to show that to our CM. He'll just laugh at me.

[Oak Tree]

Yeah, you've got to love the mandatory shower requirement. That would rule out a majority of the places that our pack has camped. Showers are nice, and we always try to make our first camping trip every year at a place with showers, but the Cub Scouts sure don't seem to miss them when we go elsewhere.

 

The other requirement that is commonly violated is the 300 feet to the restroom rule. Many state park sites don't meet that "requirement."

 

When our pack camped at our rustic council camp, the council gave us a spot about a half-mile from the port-a-john, and there were certainly no showers.

 

The idea of saying these things are mandatory just seems to get people to roll their eyes. It's not really mandatory, and you can't be sued :-)

[Scoutfish]

I find the wording to be funny. Not humorous either.

 

Showers must be provided. But what exactly constitutes a shower? A 20 gallon cleaned out oild drum on stilts. Maybe one of thosr shower set ups like they used in the TV series MASH4077?

Maybe one of thosr portable 5 gallon solar sun showers you hang froma tree branch?

 

How about toilets facilities. At BALOO, one instructor mentioned one of those "tent sty;e" port a jons. I forget the name, but it's a 5 gallon bucket with a bag in it. It's built into a canvas collapsible bench surrounded by a tent. Has a box of more bags for te next guy and a toilet paper holder.

 

Anybody know the name of that?

 

Then tyhe very first question on the form: Is the site clean and safe from hazzards?

 

By who's definition? Hopefully, not from some of the parents in my pack.

 

Our council has a list of approved sites, they are all council and district sites and all surrounding state parks.

 

Likewise, any competent person SHOULD be able to find a site that meets the trequirements, while at the same time, finding out that many if not all "approved" sites will fail to meet at least 1 if not 2 or 3 of the mandatory requirements.

 

But I guess that falls under "reasonable" right?

LOL!

[Oak Tree]

The 5 gallon portable toilet. http://www.amazon.com/PORTABLE-TOILET-Outdoor-Camping-Recreation/dp/B0012Y29QQ

 

I'm not taking one of those on a large group camping trip. I don't even want to read review on Amazon about how well the thing works. I do actually own some variation of this that I've used on a family camping trip, and it does make certain members of the family more comfortable with the idea of going to some back-country location.

 

For Cub Scouts, though, the two main features we look for are some type of provided toilets, and for a convenient water source.

 

I don't think we've ever violated a reasonable definition of 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, or 11.

 

In addition to not always following number 9 (300 ft to toilet) and 13 (showers), I do think we may have camped somewhere that was a "pack-it-out" location (violates #3), somewhere that didn't have a shelter (#12), and somewhere without enough picnic tables (#14). I also think we've camped in places that were not disability-friendly (#8).

 

It's a judgement thing. Some camping trips meet all of those, and other times we are a bit more adventuresome toward getting off the beaten path. Know your pack.

[ScoutNut]

The requirements do not state that the showers have to be in the campsite. Or within any specific distance. Just that there should be showers available.

 

In most State/Federal parks with campgrounds, there are shower facilities somewhere in the park. They can usually be found in the area reserved for trailer camping. All Council camps that allow Cub camping must have showers somewhere on the grounds or their camp will not be certified for Cub camping.

 

Sanitary bathroom facilities are a must, and NOT just for the moms.

 

Neither adult, or youth, males, should be exposing themselves in public. Even if they are in the middle of bushes hidden from sight. That is a Youth Protection nightmare waiting to happen.

 

 

 

[Oak Tree]

All Council camps that allow Cub camping must have showers somewhere on the grounds or their camp will not be certified for Cub camping.

 

Our council has knowingly let our pack camp on council property that did not have showers.