Cubmaster vs Committee Chair responsibilities

[MNBob]

Our Pack had the unpleasant experience of going through 4 Cubmasters in two years. The third Cubmaster was in the role for just over a year but he did not believe in doing any planning or meeting prep and relied on others to take care of that if they felt it necessary. No one looked forward to Pack meetings and the lack of effort showed in what was delivered. During that period I was the Webelos I Den Leader and Pack Secretary. The Committee Chair and I tried our best to make things work with the Cubmaster but it was a struggle. In the latest year (09-10) I took over as Committee Chair (and still am the Web II Den Leader). In August we had a volunteer for Assistant Cubmaster. We talked that person into becoming the Cubmaster in November after telling the previous Cubmaster that we could not continue to function if he was unwilling to do any planning. Fortunately our new Cubmaster is committed and she is doing a great job.

 

So now we are in the process of tentatively planning for next year while doing our best to get the current year completed (we've had other issues that took a back seat to finding a committed Cubmaster). Having been in the position where I was sometimes feeling like I had to be the acting Cubmaster I'm now trying to figure out the best way to divide responsibilities between Cubmaster and Committee Chair. I know the former is in charge of the "program" and working with the Scouts in the overall Pack. I'm trained and I've read the responsibilities multiple times. But on paper there seems to be a lot of overlap. I want to come up with a practical break down of responsibilities and I'm curious what others have found to work well.

 

Going into next year we will have a Treasurer, a Membership Chair and hopefully an Outings/Camping Chair to help the Cubmaster. I see my primary areas to concentrate on as committee meetings, leader recruiting, re-charter, dealing with leadership issues (if any, hopefully none next year, please, thanks! ) and training (I doubt we'll have a Pack Trainer). The Cubmaster will concentrate on Pack meetings and outings. We will be getting together soon to discuss all of this prior to a March "mandatory" committee meeting with existing leaders and new leaders who will be replacing the leaders who are crossing over.

 

Fortunately the most important lesson I've learned since I've been involved is that communication is the key. If leaders are not communicating with each other or if leaders are not communicating with parents bad things tend to happen.

[ScoutNut]

There seems to be overlap because there IS overlap.

 

The CM, CC, and the rest of the Pack Leaders and Committee Members work TOGETHER, not separately.

 

Basically the CM chairs the monthly Pack meetings, just as the CC chairs the monthly Committee/Leaders meetings.

 

The CM is more focused on program, and working with the den leaders. The CC is more concerned with the business side, and working with the various Committee members (Outings Chair, Advancement, Treasurer, Blue & Gold Chair, etc).

 

Communication is a big key in a good Pack. That communication starts in your monthly Committee meetings. That is where you ALL should be working together to plan your Pack's program, including planning for the monthly Pack meetings. Recruiting enough adult help is also key. When you have the Pack leaders doing to many jobs, they get burned out and the jobs do not get done well.

 

 

[MNBob]

I noted your emphasis on "all" and I agree that everyone working together is the ideal situation. But reality is not always ideal and in our case not all of the leaders are interested in Pack planning. We're not even able to get all leaders to attend committee meetings. I've made many attempts to be inclusive but at this point I realize the best course of action is to focus on the leaders who wish to participate and then we'll tell the other leaders what we've decided.

[ScoutNut]

No, you can't wait on folks who don't care enough to show up. However the ones who DO show up to the Committee meetings should be doing the planning. Just because you have labeled something "program" does not mean that the CM does it all on her own.

 

The leaders who do not show up to meetings - how is their den program? Are they good den leaders? Would it make any sense to look for replacements?

 

Let every den leader know that at least ONE person from their den is expected to attend every Committee meeting. Without that person there they will have no say at all in what happens in the Pack. Remind them that they are part of the Pack, and how good, or bad, the Pack runs impacts their den as well.

 

Then assign the no-show dens the tasks of bringing snacks, set-up, and clean-up, for the next Pack meeting.

[MNBob]

As your response inferred we do have some issues but I'd rather not discuss them here. We're working on them and hopefully things will get resolved. However your comment Then assign the no-show dens the tasks of bringing snacks, set-up, and clean-up, for the next Pack meeting. did pique my interest. I'm curious if other units have tried this kind of punitive response? I admit that I've considered this type of reaction but I always decided against it as I figure it won't really solve anything and instead will make the situation worse.

 

IMO accountability is the toughest thing to have in a volunteer organization. You can't fire anyone. And if you ask someone to step down what do you do when you don't have a replacement available? In Cub Scouts it's often not too difficult to see when a den is failing as the result of poor den leadership. But if no other parents want to take over the job what do you do?

[DYB-Mike]

But if no other parents want to take over the job what do you do?

 

Ah! If only we had the definitive answer to that! From my own experience and from talking with past leaders I have found that our Pack has had ebbs and flows when it comes to leaders and parents who are engaged and committed to making the Pack go. Sometimes I think it simply comes down to luck having boys with the right (read willing and enthusiastic) parents or guardians come into your Pack. There can even be a downside to that. Many times those types of people are also involved in so many other activities that they can only offer so much time to the Pack.

 

Our Pack recently had boy come in as a Webelos II. His parents were great! They came to the planning meetings and helped run the fundraising snack bars we had at our Pinewood Derby and District Pinewood Derby. Then boy crossed over and they were gone oh, we hardly knew ye!

 

All you can do is keep an eye out for good candidates to lead or even simply help with the planning process. The father of the boy mentioned above always kept telling me Ill do anything you want, but Im not putting on the shirt. There does come a point, however, that if you cant get the Den leaders you have to turn interested boys away and you need to keep putting that point across at every Pack meeting and in as many Pack communications as you can. If your District is committed to keeping you pack thriving they may be able to help with leadership recruitment, but it really is grass-roots.

 

Have you taken a poll of the Pack membership to see if there is an optimal time for planning meetings? I tried that in order to stimulate attendance, but admittedly to no avail. We ended up leaving the meetings at the same day and time, but it might work for you. Sometimes baby sitting is the problem so if your meeting space allows you might offer a spot with distractions (books, puzzles) for kids to play while the parents meet.

 

Ive also found in our Pack that assigning duties to no shows isnt really looked at as punitive. Most of the parents will gladly bring refreshments and supplies and help out at Pack meetings - they simply just want to be told what to do. It would be nice if more of them participated in the planning though.

 

Good luck!

 

YIS

Mike

[FScouter]

" I'm curious if other units have tried this kind of punitive response?"

 

It's not punitive. A pack meeting is not an event put on for the entertainment of dens. It is a gathering of the dens and it is the dens the make it happen, under the leadership if the Cubmaster. Den 1 does the opening flag ceremony, Den 2 does a skit, Den 3 leads a game, Den 4 provides refreshments, etc.

[MNBob]

Dens only make it happen if the den leaders are interested. If Den Leaders do not come to leader meetings and do not respond to requests for their dens to "do something" that something doesn't get done. How do you deal with that? Do you embarrass the den at the Pack meeting by saying "Ok it's now time for Den 5 to perform their skit. Oh I guess they didn't prepare a skit. Next." In the end that doesn't solve the problem of lack of leader participation.

 

Prime example of a situation that I'm not sure how to handle. Tonight is our monthly parents/committee meeting. These meetings have been on the Pack calendar since September. One of the dens scheduled a den meeting tonight (and never put it on the calendar). So now I have 5 parents (den leader and assistant den leader, Cubmaster and 2 committee leaders) who have overlapping meetings. The Den Leader is out of town so he wouldn't be coming to the committee meeting anyway. But the Cubmaster and 2 committee leaders are stuck. No one even told me there was a scheduling issue until Tuesday night. It's these types of situations that completely frustrate me and then I start to wonder if I'm overreacting.

[ScoutNut]

>>"So now I have 5 parents (den leader and assistant den leader, Cubmaster and 2 committee leaders) who have overlapping meetings.">" The Den Leader is out of town so he wouldn't be coming to the committee meeting anyway.">"But the Cubmaster and 2 committee leaders are stuck."

[ScoutNut]

>>"How do you deal with that? Do you embarrass the den at the Pack meeting by saying "Ok it's now time for Den 5 to perform their skit. Oh I guess they didn't prepare a skit. Next."

[MNBob]

The point I was trying to make (poorly) with my example situation is that if you have den leaders who don't care what is going on with the Pack or how their decisions impact the rest of the Pack it's hard to ask them to do things at Pack meetings. And if you keep asking and they keep ignoring there isn't much else you can do. Individual examples might have easy (on the surface) solutions but deeper issues are more difficult. Perhaps that makes me a bad leader/Committee Chair but I don't see anyone else wanting to volunteer for the position.

 

Tonight the Cubmaster will come to the committee meeting and the two other committee leaders will come late. And you are correct that they didn't both have to go to the den meeting (one specifically said he was going for 2-deep leadership) but that was the choice they made. I know the den in question will not have either of their leaders at the committee meeting. I'll just continue to try to "do my best". (This message has been edited by MNBob)

[Phibbles]

As others have said, it is not punitive to assign jobs to missing leaders/dens. With registration to your pack, each scout takes an oath to help the pack go. If they don't all do their part, it is impossible for the pack to help the scouts grow.

 

Don't feel guilty. You and the CM should join forces and lead on with great pride. Set the example and demand (politely of course) assistance.

 

Most parents want to help. They want their scout to be part of a great program. They just don't know how to help or when to help.