Cub Scouts 2010

[MNBob]

@Scoutfish: Someone I can finally relate to! Sounds like I've found another minority Pack where not everything works as perfectly as explained at training and as listed in the leader books. At it's height (first year Webelos) my den had 16 Scouts. (Yes I know that's twice the recommneded size but we made it work with 2 den leaders and by splitting into patrols but still one den.)

 

I had parents similar to what you describe. All I could do was repeatedly remind them where their Scout was falling behind and what projects he needed to complete at home. Eventually I recognized that some Scouts simply were no longer interested in Scouts and I asked parents on more than one occassion to talk with their boys and determine if they truly wanted to remain. Fast forward to this past year. We went from 16 to 12. One was a transfer to another Pack. One had too many activities going on and decided to drop Cub Scouts. The other two were a couple of the boys who I didn't expect to continue.

 

Of those two, one in particular didn't get much help at home with requirements and I'm sure that's part of why he wasn't enjoying Scouts. Despite all of my efforts to keep his parents up to date in the end I couldn't force them to do anything. Of course I didn't want to lose the Scout but in the end I knew it was best for both him and the den. Family involvement is still part of the expectations and zero to low involvement is generally a sign that, unless the boy is an independent achiever, he probably won't make it to the end. As a Den Leader you just have to recognize and accept it.

[RickChappell]

Here's what I'm struggling with on the slacker BIL example. Son doesn't want to work on req's with DL since he'll do them with Dad - what are they doing in the den meetings?

 

With any planning at all, the activities fulfill reqs and everybody is doing them because that's what you are doing. You log the results in books and records, and advancement happens. The DL should be able to see exactly at any moment where every boy is, and can adjust weekly activities based on the den's needs.

 

I don't need a BSA pre-planned program for that. You just ned someone to spend about 15 minutes with you to share how den management needs to work.

[RickChappell]

I was looking back over the comments on this thread, and there's a couple of items I don't understand.

 

1) Where does the assumption that it's either themes or advancement? It's not an either/or situation. The themes provide a context and advancement provides a framework. You do the reqs, but in context with the theme - my req goes along with the theme.

 

2) On a similar vein, where does it say Boy Scouts shouldn't do MBs? The Program Features are generally based on a MB or group of MBs. You fulfill many of the reqs during meetings and outings. There's always parts the boy has to do on his own - reports, etc. I knew a SM who insisted on finishing MBs in troop meetings, and so had the boys sitting around doing reports. Needless to say, the troop dwindled quickly.

 

 

[MNBob]

I don't need a BSA pre-planned program for that. You just ned someone to spend about 15 minutes with you to share how den management needs to work.The key word in your sentence is the first -- "I". I agree that for you, or me or plenty of other leaders being a den leader comes naturally and doesn't seem all that difficult. But for others it can seem overwhelming. In fact, as CC this year while talking with other leaders about how we could get more volunteers to step up, I had one of the other leaders basically tell me that what may seem clear and straight forward to some of us is overwhelming and confusing to him. His comments made me more considerate of the other leaders by not assuming that everything was clear to them just because it was clear to me. Now as I have made an effort to get a better understanding of how our Pack is supposed to operate with the District I'm in his shoes. The hierarchy is not clear. The resources that I'm supposed to take advantage of and the people I'm supposed to talk to are not clear to me and when I talk to district people it sometimes feels like they think I should already have the knowledge(This message has been edited by MNBob)

[Scoutfish]

 

 

 

Well, it's just like I said. The Wolf scout has it in his mind ( and I really don't know why) that his dad MUST be the one who works on stuff with the cub scout.

 

When dad gets home.. he's done his work for the day and can officially ignore the whole family until bedtime...except on cub scout night. On those occasions, he brings the son to the meetings and sorta just fades into the shadows of a corner.

 

The den leader ( not me by the way) tried all kinds of things to get this scout to get involved and learn even the basic Bobcat stuff.

 

The boy is just there, sometimes he might actually be listening, but doesn't seem to hold it. The rest of the time, he's just waiting til the meeting is over so him and dad can work on whatever the den is doing. Why does he think this?

 

Beats the hell out of me since dad hasn't done anything yet! Maybe it's hopefullness or just a sign of missing the picture.

 

As far as the den leader... what can he do? If all the other scouts are ( for the most part) advancing and earning their rank badges as well as Arrow Points, and a few BeltLoops here and there.. I can't say it's the way the den is run.

 

No. it's not a special needs situation either. Just a kid who wants to do stuff with his dad so badly, he's misleading himself over the idea that dad will suddenly become Baden Powell himself.

 

But as far as the den leader goes... what can he really do? Hold the kid down and tell him that he MUST listen and earn his Bobcat and Wolf Badge? Can't do that.

 

Should he say that if you don't meet this percentage of advancement...you're out? Can't do that either.

 

Granted, this isn't every cub scout or every DL either.

 

But there are a few parents who do not participate, and do not really care. It's their kids who are falling behind.

 

With this new Cub Scouts 2010 idea... DL have quite a bit more leverage and power to see that kids participate and actively do things.

 

As it is now, SOME parents do not bother to lift a finger, and the book promotes family and home participation of activities over den participation. Meaning home time gets a higher percentage of importance over den time.

 

Now honestly, it should be that way. But parents should also have alot of interest in their kids lives. But when they don't. Cub Scouts 2010 steps up and takes the initiative.

 

 

But as for my son, your son, and many active parent's sons... I doubt any of them would even notice a difference.

 

 

Honestly, I think the reason behind Cub Scouts 2010 is an antidote to the above mentioned parents: Those who don't do anything and don't care to, yet expect all kinds of trophies and awards..... even if they don't know what for!

[RickChappell]

Scoutfish,

What I was really asking, is the boy just sitting there in the meetings? Is he not doing the activities that are going on? If so, why is he there. I guess my suggestion is that we don't need to tell the boys what reqs they're working on, just do fun activities. As long as the boy attends and participates, he will advance some. While I know that boys are competitive, advancement is only one of the methods. I know boys who never accomplish much in the way of Scouting advancement, but they love Scouting, and participate in everything that comes up. If advancement is all you have to keep a boy coming, you've already lost him.

 

I don't see the concepts behind Fast Tacks as bad, I think the same concepts are behind every successful Scouting program to some extent. My concern is the rigidity of the program, and the removal of a critical part of Scouting. There are 6 other methods that are used to accomplish the aims of Cub Scouting. We wrap all these things up in a fun game, and the biys will reach the aims. Activities, such as skits, songs, etc are one of the methods - yet they are seemingly maligned in the new materials.

 

[RickChappell]

MNBob,

I don't disagree with you one bit. I was there once too. I learned about planning programs because I got tired of the results of not planning.

Planning is not an arcane art, it can be taught learned in a relatively short time. For some it may take a few minutes, others may take considerably longer and need to practice, but it's just not that hard.

Sure, when you are talking to others, a lot of folks may assume you know more than you do - but if they assumed you knew less, you might be unhappy as well. But that is no different than anything we do. When we start a new job, we have a learning curve, and can feel clueless.