Dad will not rise for pledge of allegiance

[JoeBob]

Short Ridge,

 

Google 'Flag Retirement'. Most of your results will be from Scouts with the few exceptions being veterans organizations.

 

Scouts and Vets have traditionally been entrusted with the special duty of retiring flags with respect.

 

Believe it. It's for your own good...

 

;^)

[scouter1960]

Since my oldest son is currently fighting in a war zone and I am desperately missing him right now....

 

I LOVE this country. I hate to see anyone disrespect it! I am also very aware of the many rights he is fighting for...for me, you and everyone else. So, while I would be annoyed by someone sitting while our proud flag goes by, I guess he has every right to. Maybe he doesn't understand how his actions affect others..maybe he does. I just know that he can do it, as much as it breaks my heart and frustrates me.

[WarrenW]

I agree with you scouter1960. I was in the Navy myself during the first Iraq war and will show any and all respect I can for my country. Thank goodness I don't have this issue with my den or pack. As others have said, I would be sure to lead the boys. One thing you can do is at the beginning of the meeting discuss what the flag stands for and talk about the respect for it and why we stand. Who knows... maybe you could get your point out without causing any issues.

 

Warren

Pack 26

Savannah, GA

[HiLo]

Don't stress over it. Making public patriotism compulsory devalues it.

[vol_scouter]

HiLo,

 

You are correct. What we need to do is to once again have it as a societal expectation.

[DeanRx]

Look its his place to decide. I don't like it, but I fought so that folks can have the right to sit if they so choose. I had a father of a scout tell me that he wouldn't stand or salute the flag as he was a Canadian citizen and thus didn't feel right about pledging to a "foriegn" flag.

 

Never mind the fact that this father has no trouble LIVING in this fine land, working for a US company, and getting PAID with US currency on a continuous basis. It pisses me off, but its his right to twist or justify his situation any way he feels is just.

 

I just told him, "I can respect your position so long as you can be respectful and not draw attention away from the flag and the flag ceremony when everyone else is standing and reciting the pledge." he's cool with that. If he was not - I (as CM) would get with the committee and kindly ask this gentleman not to attend unit events any longer.

 

His kid is registered in BSA - he is not. There is nothing that states I must allow him to participate if he is distruptive or otherwise attempts to undermine the program we as a unit are trying to provide. As long as he's cool, I'm cool. If he makes an issue out of it - damn straight I'll make an issue out of it.

 

I think that goes for a LOT of individual freedoms both within BSA and outside of it. You're not a Christian, but your kid is in a unit sponsored by a Christian Church - then don't be offended when there is a Christian invocation at the start of a B&G banquet or a Eagle CoH. If it means that much to you - then go start your own unit outside the COR. When I visited Budist shrines in Thialand, I didn't argue with the request to only wear long pants into the shrine (even though I'm not of that religion, and it was about 105 degrees and over 85% humidity - long pants were the last thing I wanted on at the moment). I took that this is their request, their religion, their culture, so if I wanted to be allowed to participate, I play by their "rules". Not quite sure WHY so many adults have a hard time with this idea. But, as I stated earlier, in the U.S.A. one tries to respect the difference of opinion, even when a majority thinks said opinion is B.S.

 

Too bad this one individual is so short-sighted as to not see the irony of their demand to be accomodated and how their need to not be "offended" might actually cause others to be offended. Then again, many adults (or people in general) struggle with the idea that someone else's (or in this case the majority's) needs / wants / wishes are just as important as their own.

 

Bottom line - the rights of the individual does not trump the rights of the majority (more adults than the kids in BSA need to learn this ideal). I'll respect your right to sit through the pledge so long as you respect the rights of 99% of the unit that wishes to stand, saulte, and pledge. You mess with the majority's rights, then expect the majority to mess with your rights. Its that simple. When in Rome, or if you don't like it - get out of Rome....

[AnaMaria]

"Scouts and Vets have traditionally been entrusted with the special duty of retiring flags with respect."

 

Here's what the flag code says:

 

"(k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning."

 

There's nothing there about who should do this. Just because Scouts and Veterans do the majority of flag retirements does not mean they have been entrusted with this "special duty".

 

It's been a while since I read the entire thread so if this was meant in a tongue-in-cheek fashion I apologize for not getting the intent. Otherwise, it's typically a very stirring ceremony and I'd not want someone to miss out because they had been mistakenly told they weren't allowed to perform it.

[BDPT00]

Whether said Canadian stands or not (and it's sad that he chooses to make an issue of it, especially in Scouts), I will stand for the Canadian anthem. I hope he doesn't mind.

BDPT00

[AnaMaria]

I'd not expect anyone not a citizen to pledge allegiance to the US flag, but would expect them to stand, as I would when in a foreign county.

[BDPT00]

Exactly.

Standing is a sign of respect. To me, not standing is a bold statement of disrespect. Do they have the right to do that? Certainly. Do I have to like it? No. Do I have to respect it? No. Do I have to tolerate it? I guess I do, but that sure doesn't mean I have to like it. As much as they have a right to sit, I have a right to express my feelings.

BDPT00