DanKroh Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 eghiglie, They may have gotten it from this 10-year-old: http://www.arktimes.com/articles/articleviewer.aspx?ArticleID=2f5d7a3b-c72a-446b-8d20-3823aa79c021 He's been making the rounds on the news the last couple of days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 We have a Wood Badge staff member who stands, but won't do the pledge.......but he's Canadian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceEagle Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 Thank you all. Lots of great answers, perspectives and insights shared. My own personal feeling on the pledge of allegiance and the playing of the national anthem are that even if you are not an American or if you choose not to recite, you should nonetheless at least stand to show your respect. The Dad and son in question were not present for our last meeting, but ironically enough one of the mom's this time chose to remain seated. While I feel very strongly that all able bodied individuals should rise for the pledge, I've come to the conclusion that I'll just have to accept that there are some people who, for whatever reason, simply won't stand up for the pledge of allegiance or the singing of the national anthem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Interesting 10 year old. Does he realize that gays have never had the right to marry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortridge Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 eghiglie - They could have simply taken a look at parts of American history where "liberty and justice" certainly were not for everyone. Slavery, no vote for women, sweatshops, Jim Crow, etc. The Oath and Law aren't really comparable to the Pledge, IMO. The former are declarations of personal values and actions; the latter connects the person reciting it to the history and values of an entire nation, with all the aspirations - and baggage - that come along with that. That makes it a much harder sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMT224 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Ok, one other idea to toss out as we sit around our virtual campfire... Before the pledge, have one of the Cubs say, "Would everyone please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance?" Few can resist such a command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisabob Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 My son's troop does this. The color guard commander announces "Audience, please rise for the pledge of allegiance." He does the same thing at the end of the meeting "Audience, please rise for the retiring of the colors." What irks me are the parents who insist on talking during the prayer requests. Although I am not one to wear religion on my sleeve, I just think that's really rude. Every once in a while one of the senior scouts will call them on it, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSScout Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 "" If a religeon thinks saluting a flag is the same as idolizing the flag itself, what about crosses, stars, bibles, and what not thew other religeions bow to? Not trying to bash anybody, but seems like a bit of "But it's different when I do it" "" Scoutfish: That's exactly the point. Each faith does see it differently. To some, the Bible is the absolute Word of God, to others, still inspired by God, but written by humans. Ask a Catholic and a Baptist and a Quaker about praying to a statue of Mary, see what opinions you get. To many (most?) faiths, the first allegiance is to God, everything else is a distant second. And with the PoA, you are promising to loyal to a piece of cloth, special though it be. But my faith is not yours; you have found your way to yours by your path and education. By the twelveth point, I will respect and defend your belief, differing from mine tho it might. Someone else will judge it's sincerity and correctness, not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank17 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Ignore it. He is doing more damage to his reputation by refusing to stand (and thereby drawing attention to himself about his beliefs) than you can do by calling him out about it. Train the scouts properly and leave the adults to their own devices, as long as they are legal & non-disruptive. It is bad enough we are sometimes treated as babysitter; do not volunteer to be a referee too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le Voyageur Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I think you have a teachable moment that you're not taking advantage of. Often times when National fervor is the highest with folks falling in line, the highest form of patriotism becomes dissent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBob Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Dissent is patriotic when you're disagreeing with an action or policy of the government. When you dis-respect the whole country by refusing to honor the flag, you need to find a country more to your liking. If you don't like your USA citizenship, we've got thousands of Mexicans who will gladly take your place and proudly pledge their allegiance in exchange for the privilege of living here. Git! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBob Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Dissent is patriotic when you're disagreeing with an action or policy of the government. When you dis-respect the whole country by refusing to honor the flag, you need to find a country more to your liking. If you don't like your USA citizenship, we've got thousands of Mexicans who will gladly take your place and proudly pledge their allegiance in exchange for the privilege of living here. Git! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdidochas Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 While it would puzzle or irritate me, also, I wouldn't say or do a thing about it. He could be a foreign national, or he could have other religious or ethical reasons not to say the Pledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdidochas Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 eghiglie, It's fairly common in the African-American community to have the view that the "with liberty and justice for all" is a lie. That is the first place I encountered it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWScouter Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 I would deny, disrespecting (in your definition) the flag is disrespecting the country. Flying the flag on the aerials of the all the cars in a used car lot, that is against the flag code using the flag for advertising, sitting down or not saluting or removing your hat or wearing patriotic flag printed clothing are all against the flag code. Should all doing so be kicked out of the country? I heard a lot of people complaining about people waving foreign flags at demonstrations, hope they never go to a Seventeenth of May Parade in Norwegian- American community, very few American flags waved lots of Norwegian though. I understand the Jehovah Witness belief concerning the flag and pledge, they with the help of ACLU in the forties won a Supreme Court decision striking down laws requiring Schools to participate in the Pledge. Many people bring flag worship and nationalism to the level of idolatry and that is against my reading of the Ten Commandments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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