ScoutNut Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 >>"a den might have new cubs without rank, bobcats, and wolves. Is this a wolf den?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastScouter Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 I joined a "non-traditional" pack about a year ago. My son's Tiger den leader quit on us mid-March, and I volunteered to take over as DL. Just like you I was both a cub and boy scout... so it was frustrating. I thought I could help make some changes, but there was resistance from the day that I arrived. Eventually I was ignored and no longer asked to volunteer. My den was the most active, did our own mini-campouts, service projects.... Really... before you get too far in... Go visit some other Packs in your area... if they look better.. transfer. You are in it for your son, so get him the best program you can... and just transfer. You only get 4-1/2 yrs in cubs so find a good program and give yourself less stress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 >>"I joined a "non-traditional" pack about a year ago. My son's Tiger den leader quit on us mid-March, and I volunteered to take over as DL .... My den was the most active, did our own mini-campouts ">"Overnight camping by Tiger, Wolf, and Bear Cub Scout dens as dens is not approved and certificates of liability insurance will not be provided by the Boy Scouts of America." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon M Posted November 6, 2009 Author Share Posted November 6, 2009 Thanks, ScoutNut, for the reply and the clarification regarding advancement, den structure, etc. Regarding den#'s: Just figured since the uniform inspection sheet in the DL Handbook showed a position for den numerals they might be more than just a suggestion(http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34282.pdf). Withdrew my application from that pack anyway and have been in contact with a few others in the area. Will be visiting a few in the weeks to come. Had a very nice conversation with a CM from another pack and will be visiting there next week. I understand that some might be facing financial challenges and certainly didn't intend to offend anybody. The DL in question, however, is gainfully employed and manages to drive a rather expensive and relatively new vehicle. It would appear in this case anyway that the tattered clothing was more of a fashion statement than a result of economic challenge. This is a poor decision for an adult to make when acting in a leadership role regarding children. Although in itself it is not terribly significant it does leave you wondering about the DL's ability to make decisions that might be significant. Here are a few concrete examples. Before we completely left this particular Pack/Den there was an outing to a local forest preserve scheduled. Essentially the Den meeting was to be held there. Guess what? DL failed to pass out consent forms nor did she file a local tour permit (or annual tour permit). Poor planning. Bad decision. For Feats of Skill DL forgot a ball and suggested that the cubs use a rock to throw back and forth. Let's encourage the scouts to throw rocks! Poor planning. Bad decision. -Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GKlose Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 My kids cycled through 3 packs in 6 years, and the bottom line is that I don't think any pack is perfect. Some may come close, but even then, it can deteriorate over a couple of years. Our first pack folded. Knowing what I know now, I should have personally committed to saving it. Had I done that, then maybe a couple of other adults would have stepped forward too. In my defense, however, the CM who ran it gave almost no warning. He said "I'm not interested in running this any more" and less than two weeks later, he joined another pack and about half the pack went with him. That's a great way to kill a pack (moving a den to another pack). So we eventually moved to the other pack too. The second pack wasn't fully prepared for the sudden growth. Events were out of control, there were so many kids running around. I personally decided that it wasn't going to work for us, when at a PWD in a school gym, I saw two kids going into a restroom together and going into the same stall. Parents were oblivious to what their kids were doing. There was virtually no adult supervision. So we moved on after a year. There were two other packs in town, and my wife preferred one over the other, because she knew some families in that pack. But what we didn't know was that the "one-man show" CM/CC was in the beginning stages of burnout. He did very little to either hand the pack off to someone else, or run it properly. My youngest finished AoL this last spring. That last pack was almost in the folding stage this last fall. The CM/CC said "I don't want to do this any more" and one of the den leaders was about ready to take his entire den to another pack, before someone from outside the pack stepped forward to take over. My bottom line: every pack is different. Some are great, some are in the death throes; most seem in-between. Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DenZero Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Jon - I suspect that almost any den that you visit will have some aspects of what you obeserved, with a few rare exceptions. Most den leaders are doing the job because no one could be found who really wanted to do it. Since you are concerned about doing things by the book, I think you won't be satisfied unless you are the den leader. You ought to ask around to find a megaden that needs to be split, or a den leader who wants out, and offer to take over the den. That's my $0.02 anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllowaScouter Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I got in on this topic late, but I see the frustrations and have witnessed them myself. My son is in a pack that doesn't offer immediate recognition. The pack meetings are just fun events, there are no advancement ceremonies, color guards, etc. The excuse it that those things aren't fun. As far as the den goes, I don't see how we are going to make much advancement progress until spring, after B&G. Even the crafts we do aren't in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 >>"The pack meetings are just fun events, there are no advancement ceremonies, color guards, etc. The excuse it that those things aren't fun.">"As far as the den goes, I don't see how we are going to make much advancement progress until spring, after B&G. Even the crafts we do aren't in the book." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllowaScouter Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 >>Currently (changing next year), for Wolf and Bear Cub Scouts, although some work can be done in den meetings (& in some cases works better when done with the den), most of the work on advancements is supposed to happen at home with the family. So work with your son at home, sign his book, and let his den leader know what he has finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 The Tiger program is supposed to operate using Shared Leadership. Which means that each Tiger Team (Tiger/Adult Partner) takes turns planning and running meetings & outings. Talk to the den leader and set some dates for you and your Tiger to do the meetings. Scope out the places in your area your den can go for their Go-See-Its (college radio station or newspaper, fire station, nature center, historical place, etc), and talk to your den leader about when the best time would be to reserve visits. It is entirely possible that being brand new, your Tiger den leader is feeling over their head, and is not real sure what they are doing as yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllowaScouter Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 ScoutNut - Thanks for the replys. I'll do my best. >>It is entirely possible that being brand new, your Tiger den leader is feeling over their head, and is not real sure what they are doing as yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Being in Scouts for over 10 years does not mean they have a clue how the Tiger program works today. Especially if they are not trained! Are you sure transferring to a functional Pack wouldn't be better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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