Can You Explain Why....

[OldGreyEagle]

I have a challenge for all regular posters, irregular posters as well, but it wont be as easy for you. I would like your opinions on two subjects. You can say anything you like (within the context of forum rules of course)but I ask you answer both questions.

 

1. Why does Bob White catch by far the most criticism for

his opinions and statements?

 

2. Why is it in over two years of posting on this forum I

have hardly, if ever seen any other poster directly

asked for advice on a scouting matter?

[AdvanceOn]

1. Why does Bob White catch by far the most criticism for his opinions and statements?

 

IMHO, because he touches a nerve. Many of us say and think we know scouting but Bob is a by the book kind of guy and challenges many of our beliefs and misconceptions. He has challenged some of MY beliefs and misconceptions. Does he offend me? Generally not!

 

2. Why is it in over two years of posting on this forum I have hardly, if ever seen any other poster directly asked for advice on a scouting matter?

 

Most of us post opinions (which can be very useful and insightful as well). Bob posts resources and plans of action. I really appreciate when he can direct us to a book, specific person (position), etc.

 

[yaworski]

"1. Why does Bob White catch by far the most criticism for his opinions and statements?"

 

Bob appears to apply no personal thought to any Scouting issue. Nearly everything that Bob types is support of BSA doctrine. I'm sure that if BSA abandoned camping, Bob would not criticize that because "BSA is always right."

 

 

[eisely]

I don't think anyone would disagree that Bob comes across as a "by the book" kind of guy, including Bob himself. He also comes across as something of a "know it all" as well. I think the combination of characteristics offends some people. He has offended me on at least one occasion, but that does not excuse the abuse that some people dish out on this forum.

 

In fact Bob knows a great deal, and this too might offend some people. Nevertheless the reason people solicit Bob's opinion or advice is that his opinion is always well formed, and you can count on his knowing what BSA official sources have to say. This is very valuable. Too bad some people resent it.

 

Keep up the input Bob. I always find it interesting and informative, even if I don't always agree with your slant on things.

[eagle90]

I think it is because Bob is very black and white, Yes and no, cut and dried. No gary areas. There is NO room for interpretation. If BSA says it , it HAS to be right. God forbid an independent thinker criticizes the program in any way.

 

That said, I have also learned a thing or two from him along the way. Keep us on our toes, Bob!

[SagerScout]

Bob White seems pretty bright, experienced, and well-read in scouting. That's why I am always eager to hear what he has to say. We don't always agree, although we often do, but he does seem to have the knack of disagreeing agreeably - most of the time. If he has a snappish moment occasionally, and I'm not saying that he has, well, he's human too.

 

On the other hand, there are other individuals on this board who just can't keep a civil keyboard in their head. I've been guilty of that myself, when tired and aggravated, but do try to keep it under control.

 

[eisely]

One further point about going "by the book" I have a great deal of respect for the BSA way of doing things. These programs, policies, etc. were not arrived at accidentally and are based on decades of experience. In life generally one always encounters expressions such as, "we've always done it that way..." While this by itself does not justify automatically doing it the way it was always done, the historic way of doing things usually has good reasons behind it. Old ways should be both respected and challenged. That way we learn from the past and validate the appropriateness of old solutions to what seem to be new problems, or change those solutions if warranted. The fact that Bob is a true believer in the BSA way of doing things should not put us off, but should put us on our toes to listen and reflect on what he has to say.

[dan]

1. Bob is attacking (I mean this in the nicest way ) some peoples ideas of how scouting should be ran. Remember these are volunteers doing what they think is the correct way to do scouting. I look on this as constructive criticism, something we all need, to improve and grow.

But he is also like a pit bull that will not give up, which really seems to rub people the wrong way, that he will not

 

2. When Bob post something I do not agree with I look it up to make sure he is correct. (he will even tell you where to find the answer if you ask) Well I have only found him to be INCORRECT one time, well at least incorrect in my mind! He can follow his talk up with documentation.

 

[rlculver415]

Maybe it's because he's not afraid to take a stand, can back it up with documentation, and is willing to remain standing while folks proverbially take a poke at him.

 

I am always interested in reading what he has to say, fact or opinion. It stetches me, educated me, causes me to look at our own program to find ways to improve or to correct problems.

 

I'm wondering what Bob is thinking now? I'd be surprised if he doesn't read this thread frequently. How nice to have so many compliments (mostly) written about you. If I were him, I'd be tempted to copy this to refer to whenever things got rough.

[shemgren]

I find Bob White informative and factual. As a Commissioner, I often find myself having to point out the offical policy on a given issue. Boy Scouting has a strong tradition in my community and the communities I serve, and I serve the volunteers in my area to help them present the best program possible to the youth in my area. Bob White helps me to locate resources, policies and other information to fulfill that goal.

[tdyer56]

1. When I first started posting on this site, I would actually get mad at Bob for replying to everything I asked or stated. But I thought I knew everything at that point. Since then, I have had mucho training, and now a Commissioner. I now look forward to his knowledge. And he has helped me out quite a bit.

 

2. I often see posts asking for advice. In fact I am asking and getting advice about Roundtables.

 

So, If someone only see what they want to see, then yes. Bob is attacked alot and no not many people do ask for advice. It all goes with your point of view.

 

Thanks a million BobWhite,

 

Tim Dyer

[Mike Long]

1. People hate to be told that they are "doing it wrong." People hate it even more when they ARE doing it wrong and it is pointed out by another. Bob is passionate and persistent about the program and that sometimes is perceived as annoying or rude by some. Bob also is very knowledgeable and some may feel that he is talking down to them when in fact Bob is trying to SHARE his knowledge. Some people hate change and when the scouting program changes from the way it was presented to then as a boy they seem to feel that it is an attack on the scouting experience that they remember so fondly.

 

Bob has irritated me greatly in the past on some subjects but I read his posts and looked up his citations and spoke to others with a similar level of experience and you know what? He's right, he has proven he's right and he doesn't need to prove squat to me again (but I appreciate being told where to find the citations.) I will conceed however that there are elements of the current Scouting program that to me seem to be optional or at the very least dependent on the circumstances of the unit in question. We do the best we can with what we have to work with.

 

For all the "by the book" commentary. We have been in existence for nearly 100 years. We plan, implement, review, discard, modify and innovate elements of the Scouting program constantly and re-write all of the Scouting literature on a constant basis. The end result is "The Book." And yet some of us think that adhereing to the end result of 100 years of field tested and reviewed program material is a bad thing? Can you possibly be serious? Do you also like to hand crank your car and go to the barber for bloodletting because you believe that those techniques are superior to currect practices?

 

2. Because despite the negative things said about him by a vocal minority, others notice that Bob is a man of Scouting experience and knowledge that is here to help others become the same.

 

BTW- The BSA did abandon camping in the 70's (or close enough to abandoning it for me). It failed, we revised and went forward. All part of that 100 years of field tested and reviewed program material I was talking about.

[sctmom]

Answer to #1 and #2:

 

Bob makes us think.

We know Bob has the facts to back up what he says.

[Rooster7]

For those of us that view Bob White as a little more fallible than others, this thread presents a Catch-22 scenario. If we answer honestly, we may be portrayed as that stubborn, "untrained", "anti-BSA", minority that resents Bob's wealth of absolute knowledge. If we remain silent, we're apt to be portrayed in the same manner. Nevertheless, I am going to answer honestly.

 

1. I think Bob is often right. Sometimes I think he is wrong. Problem is, Bob always thinks he is right, and refuses to yield or acknowledge even the smallest of points. When pressed, he will inform you that he is unwilling to compromise the BSA program. In other words, he implies or states out rightly that those who disagree with him are seeking to comprise the program. It's never a simple matter of two different interpretations. I find that attitude to be extremely arrogant and offensive.

 

2. I believe there are two reasons why many folks ask Bob White's opinion. The first reason is positive. The second is not. One, Bob apparently has attended significant amounts of training and has read much of BSA' reference material. He is very good at quoting this material. Two, if you're confident enough (or arrogant enough) to answer every question presented in such a way as to leave no room for anyone else's interpretation, then people are likely to view you as either "the expert" or "the jerk". I'm somewhere in between. I value the knowledge that he's willing to share. I just don't appreciate his less than humble style. There is no room to disagree. Despite Bob's claim that he can agree to disagree, he usually portrays those people as the stubborn, "untrained", "anti-BSA", minority that resents Bob's wealth of absolute knowledge.

 

Having said all of the above, I actually like Bob White. Especially when we agree.

(This message has been edited by Rooster7)

[Twocubdad]

A rather curious topic. I'm sure Bob is getting a chuckle over all the free analysis. I'd like to hear his answers!

 

I'll answer the second part first: Bob gets all the direct questions because he has the knowledge, experience and/or stack of Scout literature to answer them. If you want to know what the official Scout policy is on a topic, ask Bob.

 

As to the first question, it doesn't seem to me that Bob takes any more heat than anyone else on the board. There are a couple of other flame throwers I'd give that distinction to. When Bob seems to be criticized, it's more the BSA policy he quotes that's the target, not necessarily Bob's opinion.

 

I think Bob has assumed the role of "Keeper of the Faith" for the board. I don't know if that's just his personality, Scout training, or if that's his official role with the site. I have to think that to some degree, he's just playing the part. I don't think anyone can be a part of any organization like BSA and not have some strong disagreements with the official policy from time to time.

 

I see this site as a place to grouse and blow off steam while among family. I can gripe about thing here that I wouldn't say to non-Scouts or even parents. Interstingly, while many of my posts question various policies and complain about how BSA does things, I'm the "By the Book" guy in our Pack. At our last leaders' meeting, we had a big arguement from a few leaders who wanted to dump the various rank hats in favor of a "Pack Hat." Nipped that one in the bud.

 

In any rate, "By the Book Bob" serves a needed function here and he does it well.