Should Roundtable be a joint venue?

[tdyer56]

I have a problem, I have been told that the Cub and BS roundtables will be a joint meeting with a breakout session for the different programs. I just finished RT Commissioner training and learned that they should be seperate. I agree with this. What do you do in your District and/or Councils?

 

I need advise on this. Bob White, suggestions?

 

Tim Dyer

[sctmom]

Our district does it as a joint meeting for about 30 minutes, then breakouts for Cubs and Boy Scouts.

 

[Mike Long]

Our roundtables are the same as Sctmoms.

[OldGreyEagle]

Our Council has two separate meetings

[Bob White]

There are certain elements of District Roubdtables that I am very comfortable doing jointly. Primarily the meeting night and location, the fellowship time around the refreshments table (10-minutes maximum), and District and Council News (5-minutes maximum)(I no longer say "announcements" on the advice of my therapist after years of trying to get that silly song out of my head).

 

Other than those two portions I strongly urge separate programs even for opening and closing ceremonies. The reason is that Roundtable activities need to be program specific in order to be a benefit to those attending. troop leaders need to see Boy Scout ceremonies and Cub Leaders cub ceremonies and they are very different animals. For obvious reasons the skill presentations and administrative training need to be separate as well.

 

This format is supported in the Roundtable Program Guides, Roundtable Staff Training and at the Roundtable Conferenceds at Philmont Training Center.

 

There are people who want to combine more Roundtable elements for time efficiency, convenience, and from a lack of understanding of the real purpose and structure of Roundatble. What has to be measured and valued above all else is the usefullness of the Roundtable experience on the unit level. If the participants are seeing something that cannot be used at their next meeting then you are wasting their time and yours.

 

So you learned good stuff tim, stick to your covictions and persuade the folks that what your doing is in the best interest of the program.

 

best of Luck,

Bob White

 

 

[eisely]

All the roundtables that I have participated in had a brief joint session dealing only with those things common to both cub and scout programs. These were very short and valuable, but the main emphasis is properly on the different programs in their own breakouts.

[acco40]

Just last year my council began having joint roundtables for boy scouts and cub scouts (same room). However, they have traditionally been on the same evening and location (school). They overlap very briefly (5 minutes or less) and then breakout to different areas. My problem is that I would like to attend both!

[bt01]

The district that I am involved with has a joint meeting for about 15 -30 minutes, then breakouts for Cubs and Boy Scouts.

 

Some times, depending on the topic it may be joint.

 

[jbroganjr]

I wonder if this is a case of you being a new CSRT commish and everyone else being helpful....

That being said, I have no problem with a short joint session (20 minutes is normally enough, including the opening ceremony). Covering district topics etc.

You are commissioned to present a cub round table. You will not be doing your job if you do not have a separate meeting.

Now if the argument is that the information is for both, then you are being fed hogwash. One, how many cub scouters will care or return to hear about merit badge issues, eagle issues, patrol method, etc. and how many boy scouters will want to go over ceremonies, Tiger program, silly songs, games, Blue and Gold or PWD???? See they are two separate programs.

Now the folks to talk to are as follows: District Commissioner, then the District Chairman and then the District Exec. if needed. If feasible, have a separate meeting area on the same night and at the same place.

 

Explain to them the following: One, cubs and boy scouts are different programs. (see examples above)

Two, in order for scouters to return, it is the district and your responsibility not to waste their time (see examples above) or yours.

If a dual night arrangement is not feasible because of physical location, you are going to have to do the leg work to set up a different night or location and this will make more work for the key three, as you have now added another night. Yes I have seen this arrangement in our council because of physical limitations. It does not last longer than a year, as most people do not want another meeting to go to.

 

If you arrange the same night, dual facilities, here is a suggestion that we had to use at our RT when my co commish and I took over.

 

Take command here, bring a stop watch with you. If you have made the arrangements, announce them (as a news brief, unless you like hearing that song over and over again, which in this case might actually be helpful, so use announcment) that you will break at xx time and cubs will gather at xx area for their RT.) Talk to the boy scout RT commish, tell him your plan, show him your agenda.

Use the stop watch if you notice that the joint session is getting carried away. Just bring it up to the front of the room and hand it to either the long winded speaker, (an occaisional hazard in scouting ;-} ) or the Boy scout RT commish. Step in at the next break, and in your most positive, pleasant voice, announce. OOOPs, we are running over schedule hear, could the cub scouters in the room please use this break to get up and follow me to the cub round table. Rude, yes, effective yes. We had to use this as a last ditch effort after wasting, I mean wasting, 3 meetings of the year. But, the scouters who come to RT have given up another precious night of their time, and we were not going to be guilty of wasting their time. BTW, we have agreat relationship with all involved on thedistrict level. We let everyone know that we were going to pull that stunt (yes, it was set up as a walk on, just a very serious one). Good Luck and separate.

[ASM7]

They said we couldn't bring joints to the roundtable. :-)

 

We have always had separate meetings with an occasional joint meeting ie. August planning meeting where all information on the upcoming year is presented. I agree that the two programs have enough differences that the two should be separate.

Doug

 

[tdyer56]

Okay, Let me explain the situation.

 

I am newly appointed as the Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner by the DE and DC.

Attendance was low at the roundtables due to lack of the fun factor. (I attended and that was my perception.)

To increase attendance, the DC has combined the Boy and Cub roundtables. It will consist of the following:

15 minutes......Opening and Business

30 minutes......Cub and Boy Breakouts

10 minutes......Closing and Misc.

I was told no crafts and no songs. Units have been appointed to do the breakout sessions.

 

My problem is...I don't agree with this nor can't do something that I don't believe in.

 

I went through Roundtable Commissioner training (the DC has not). This style they they are trying to implement goes against everything I learned.

 

I don't mind having the roundtables on the same night at the same place. Even a bit of common business is fine. But from the opening to the closing, the two programs are completely different and deserve their own formats and meetings. Cub Scout roundtable should be a place the leaders want to come for new ideas they can't find anywhere else. That includes crafts. As far as breakout sessions, I think the crafts should be done there, that way the Cubmaster is not stuck doing them. I also want upbeat songs. I am a motivator and can pass that along. Just by changing the RT Commissioner, you may change the way it is run. I just can't do it they way that they are wanting with the knowlege about the way it should be.

 

I could use any advice on this.

 

Thanks,

Tim Dyer

[Bob White]

Tim,

You are dead on right. Roundtable, like the meetings they prepare leaders for, needs to be hands on and fun. have confidence in what you are trying to do and don't be forced into doing it wrong. I suggest one last meeting with the DE and Boy scout Roundtable Commissioner to come to an agreement as to the purpose of Roundtable and how to fulfill that mission.

 

That purpose as I'm sure you remember is to provide unit leaders with "The Will To Do" and "The Skill To Do" a quality scouting program in their community. That means you have to provide the crafts, skills, motivation to deliver a true scouting program.

 

If the District Commissioner does not trust your training I would say "find someone willing to do a bad job, that's not what I volunteer my time for." Then run to the District Training Chairman and offer to do Cub Leader and Roundtable Commissioner Training. You could make a huge impact on the quality of scouting in your area.

 

Best of luck, I'm pullin for ya!

Bob White

[smallfootgrb]

08-27//Joint Roundtables with break outs is the way to go. THere is information that in a group session that applies to both Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. Also having joint Roundtables allows newer Leaders to identify those form the opposite side of the table thus making the transition from one to the other easier. A Joint roundtable allows a presenter of a district event that included both Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts to make only one presentation.

 

Joint Roundtables is also the best means of reducing the time at meetings for some on the District Committee or on the District Commissioner's Staff.

[Bob White]

I agree it saves the district commissioner and district executive time when the roundtable is in the same place at the same night. I also agree to do the the announcements together IF the info is relevent to both progrmas.

 

But to have the Cub Leaders watch a Boy Scout opening is not helpfull to the leaders of the troop or vice versa.

 

As much as I enjoyed the conveience, my convenienc is not the goal of the Roundtable program. Giving Unit Leaders the will to do and the skill to do good scouting does not rely onmy conveience or that of the DE's.

 

30 minutes of individual program time out of 60, or even better 90 minutes,is not enough to accomplish the goals of RT. The RT training syllabus, both Roundtable staff manuals as well as the Roundtable conferences at Philmont Training Center stress the need for individual programs.

 

There is a reason for that consistency. It works better than joint meetings. Tim is following the training he has recieved and he is correct to do so. His evaluation that he is not being given the tools and opportunity to do the job correctly is accurate. The district Commissioner should not ask him to do the job and then not allow him to do it the way he was properly trained to do it is poor management.

 

Bob White

[acco40]

Again, there are benefits to holding quasi-joint meetings (same time, same place, some overlap) as tdyer56 and others have stated.

 

However, a problem exists for someone like me who is active in both Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. I can't attend both meetings simultaneously.

 

Why not have the meetings run with a slight overlap (end of Cub rountable, beginning of Boy Scout roundtable) but consecutively. I think that would benefit all.