Porno Magazine at Pack Meeting

[scottawildcat]

Last night a parent informed me that one of the boys, a Bear, brought a porn magazine to the pack meeting last month. Any suggestions on how I as both his CM and Den leader should handle this?

[Eamonn]

OK, I'll bite!

I'm not sure how anyone is both a CM and a Den Leader?

I'm not sure why it would take a Den Leader almost a month to find out that a little Lad had this magazine?

I do think you know what needs to be done.

Ea.

[CalicoPenn]

Wow, things sure have changed in Packs since I was a lad. Back then, Pack meetings were attended by the lads, their parents and their siblings. No one, let alone a Cub Scout, would have been able to bring a "porn" magazine to a Pack meeting without some adult finding out. Was this lad's parent(s) even at the Pack meeting? I find it difficult to believe that a parent would have let their son bring a "porn" magazine to a Pack meeting.

 

Note my use of quotation marks around the word porn. I do this deliberately because we don't know what this witnessing parent (or the writer) considers to be a "porn" magazine. I have been around parents who consider Mad magazine, or certain comic books (like Wonder Woman (not kidding)) to be "porn" magazines, though most people would never accept such a designation. Now if it's Playboy (or worse), then you have an issue with the Boy and his parent(s) - as well as an issue with all the folks who missed a lad carrying a Playboy into a Pack meeting - and as Eamonn says, you know what needs to be done. If it's Mad Magazine, or a Wonder Woman comic book, then you have a problem you can't solve to the complaining parent's satisifaction.

 

Calico

[ScoutNut]

Per your previous posts you have stated your Pack has only about 15 boys. That means that allowing for a few no-shows, you had a rather small group at last month's Pack meeting.

 

Why did only 1 person know that this boy had a questionable magazine at the Pack meeting?

 

Why is it that this person did nothing, and said nothing to you (as CM), or to one of the boys parents, or to anyone else, at the time?

 

Why wait a month to bring this up? Is there some sort of "bad blood" involved between the two families that might be coming out now for some reason?

 

Also, as an FYI, it is against BSA policy for one person to be both a CM and DL. It is actually impossible to be REGISTERED as both since BSA's computer system would not accept it. Since a registered CM is needed in order to have a Charter, your registered position must be that of CM. Your Pack would be better served if you found a new DL for the Bear den.

[Twocubdad]

This makes me a bit suspicious too. But I'm wondering about the person who told you about it and why it was brought to your attention only last night? My first inclination would be to say, "gee whiz, you should have told me about this immediately. You've really put me in a bad position by waiting so long."

 

Reason being, of course, that the delay turns this into somewhat of a he-said/she-said. I don't know what all the politics and issues are, but the situation would sure be easier if the person hauled the kid to you and said, "Billy! Show Mr. Wildcat what you brough with you!"

 

Had that happened, or had you found the material yourself, your best course is to let the parents deal with it. But I wouldn't just turn it over to the parents and walk away. I'd have a conference with the Scout and the parents on the spot. While I would want to communicate the innappropriateness and seriousness of the matter, I would also want to get a feel for the parent's response. Frankly, I'd like to see a little consternation on their part to know thay are taking the situation seriously.

 

The precise direction I would take would depend on the content and context.

[mdlscouting]

Maybe someone could offer advice, rather than fussing at the original poster for going above and beyond the call of duty as both CM and DL.

 

When they post a thread asking about tips on how to recruit a new DL, constructive criticism could be used there.

 

As for the original question asked, I'd go to the parents, and make sure they, and the scout understand that this is the last warning.

[John-in-KC]

1) A month. Mr Scott, there's something wrong with your internal communications. That information should have gotten to you much sooner.

 

2) Where were the parents? Where was A parent? Pack meetings are times of recognition. They should have been there. If you look at the Methods of Cub Scouting, one of them is the family. Mom and Dad should have been the first line of defense here.

 

3) Who was looking at the kids as gathering time continued? This is June, so I presume this incident was in May. Even way up north toward the Canadian border, it's not five layers of clothes weather in May. How did this Cub get this magazine into the meeting room in the first place?

 

4) Porn. That's a term that's been used a tad liberally in recent days. What exactly are we talking? I'm not saying relative morality, but there is truly hard core porn. There is written erotica. There is Playboy. All bring an immediate reaction (this is your only warning, do not bring this stuff to any Scouting event again...ever), but if the Cub had harder stuff, there may be need to talk not with the family, but with the SE ... by the parent bringing the accusation. In my neck of the woods, underage possession can trigger mandatory reporters doing what they must.

 

Do the right thing. Ask the right questions. Ask for help from your Commissioners, COR, and professionals. You'll figure out what right should be. I trust you for that.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[ScoutNut]

Not fussing. I added my comment as an FYI. He has stated in other threads that he is new to Scouting. It is very possible that he missed the incident at the Pack meeting because he was engaged in doing to many things at once.

 

This is assuming that there actually WAS an incident at the Pack meeting.

 

Considering no one but this one person had any knowledge of it, and they waited a month to tell anyone, I would not automatically condemn the boy, and give the family a "last warning".

 

The questions I asked, should be asked of the parent who is only now coming up with this accusation.

 

If the answers sound like there might possibly be some kind of merit in the accusation, I would then talk to the boy, AND his family together to see if we could sort it out.

 

At this point, we, and the opening poster, have no idea what REALLY happened at the Pack meeting.

 

[evmori]

Last night a parent informed me that one of the boys, a Bear, brought a porn magazine to the pack meeting last month.

 

Porn magazine? At last month's Pack meeting?

 

Who is this parent who told you about this? Where was this Cub's parents? How does this parent know it was a porn magazine? Why did it take so long for this parent to tell you?

 

A lot of questions to be answered before any advice should be given. Something seems amiss here.

[Crew21_Adv]

 

 

A porno Magazine at a Pack Meeting?

 

I would have immediately confiscated the magazine to review it make sure it was indeed a dirty magazine. Maybe review it twice just to be sure. Maybe look at it a third time, just to be confident.

 

I wonder if the young Scout had any more on him?

 

I don't think Mrs Crew21_Adv would be too happy if I shook down a Cub Scout to confiscate his collection of porn magazines.

 

 

Just trying to spread some humor on a difficult topic.

 

 

We as Scouters can't predict or change what literature, magazines, or subscriptions families have in their house. We only have an obligation to identify and report child abuse, neglect, and endangerment.

 

Unfortunate that it happened, but let's be thankful it was a Cub Scout that brought the magazine to the Pack meeting and not a parent.

 

Common sense tells Boy Scout aged boys (11-18) not to bring those types of magazines on campouts. But common sense is not common.

 

I don't know how they obtain them, but maybe once every two years, we will have a Scout, who thinks he can check out a Maxim or Playboy magazine at camp, without his parents ever finding out. Then the Scoutmaster, Assistant Scoutmasters have a dilemma; do they let the parents know about one magazine and risk permanently losing a decent Scout (who made a mistake) from Scouting? Or do you shame the Scout, review the Scout Oath and Law, and keep it between the Adult Leadership (two or more on a campout) and the one Scout?

 

Hopefully, This Cub will never let it happen again.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

 

[Twocubdad]

I am disturbed by the idea here and in a couple other threads that we should be keeping this sort of thing from the parents. We are not physicians, priests or therapists. We have and OBLIGATION to inform the parents. It is a basic principle of Scouting that in matters of faith, discipline and sexuality we are to differ to the parents or in extinuating circumstances to a minister, physician or school counselor.

[CalicoPenn]

"I don't know how they obtain them, but maybe once every two years, we will have a Scout, who thinks he can check out a Maxim or Playboy magazine at camp, without his parents ever finding out."

 

Here's a prime example of what I'm talking aboult when I suggest that people's definition of "porn" can be quite different. Most of us would agree that Playboy is porn. Soft-core, but porn nonetheless. Maxim, on the other hand, is right at that line. It's sold out in the open racks, available to anyone that can reach it. While inappropriate for Scouting, it's as much "porn" as the swimsuit edition of Sports Illustrated. There will be people who consider Maxim, or the swimsuit edition of Sports Illustrated to be "porn". It's doubtful that this would hold up as meeting the legal definition. Sure, let's call it inappropriate but let's also be careful that we don't automatically name every magazine that's inappropriate as "porn".

[John-in-KC]

CP,

 

From what I've seen, the swimsuit issue of SI is juicier than most editions of Maxim.

 

Thanks for reinforcing my point. What is inappropriate for Scouts may be close to the line and not across it, or may be across the line.

[tonys]

I have an issue with the timing here. A Bear cub so a boy of 7 or 8.

A month is an eternity at that age. I say you have lost the ability to address the situation effectively at that point. As someone else said boys are in many ways like puppies and like puppies if you want to correct behaviors you need to do it right then. I don't think you will accomplish much at this point. You can talk to the boy but if it happened again then the thing to do is address it right then and there.

 

just my opinion

tony

[Crew21_Adv]

Fellow Scouters,

 

Let me clarify my position again. I did say that "we have an obligation to identify and report child abuse, neglect, and endangerment".

 

There is a significant difference between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. Also, there is a significant difference between the 10.5 y/o Tenderfoot and the 17 y/o Eagle.

 

Do we run to the parents every time a Boy Scout uses a four letter word? Or could counseling the Scout Oath and Law resolve the discrepancy most of the time?

 

A hypothetical situation..

I would also be concerned if the Cubmaster went and told the mother about her son bringing a porno magazine. Then the mother ask the Bear Cub Scout where he got the magazine at? The Bear Cub Scout shamefully states that he found the porn magazine with all the other magazines in the drawers in the desk, in his dad's office.

 

Does the adult leader want to stick around for the fireworks and possibly difficult fallout afterwards. Maybe the Cubmaster should take the Cub to the DE, while the parents have a lengthy and damaging discussion about porn.

 

I didn't say that we should keep everything from the parents. I did state that the adult leadership does "have a dilemma", determining what has crossed the line and when to notify the parents, or what has not crossed the line.

 

Finally, some minor transgressions, may be sufficiently closed and resolved by reviewing Scout Oath and Law. Major transgressions, well, we know what those are and how to handle those. But what or where is the line that defines those transgressions.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv