Establishing new Tiger Dens

[thoover]

Assuming you have enough kids (new Tigers) for two or more dens, what are your approaches to setting up the new dens?

 

If you do something like Den A meets on Monday night, Den B meets on Tuesday night, pick you night, and the resulting groups aren't equitable (i.e. 12 choose Monday night and only 4 choose Tuesday night), where do you go from there?

 

I have given thought to sending the parents a survey asking for their two preferred meeting nights, a night that they can't meet, and a list of their buddies that they want to stay with, if any, then setting up the dens from there to make sure they aren't overly mismatched.

 

Any thoughts appreciated.

 

Thanks.

[wolfmama500]

The numbers should be even, what are you going to do for the outings that are required,take them all at once or should they go separate? In the Tigers den every Tiger should have a partner(parent or other adult) so you should have lots of help from them. for the survey,watch out, sometimes too many options open the door for big disaggrements so keep your choices limited as well. How often do you plan to meet? Keep in mind that sometimes not all den members participate 100%. Did at least 12 kids contacted you already or what make you start planning for so many boys?

[thoover]

We're picking up 8-10 from our Spring Rally and have 4-6 from our cub families (sibs of older scouts). Will likely pick up a few more during the Fall Rally.

 

I'm very comfortable with setting up the Tiger program, just looking for thoughts, experiences, pitfalls, etc. on doing the initial den set up / split when multiple dens are involved.

 

If you let everyone choose their den leader, it is possible that most choose one and the dens are very uneven.

 

If you choose the dens for the cubs, there can certainly be hurt feelings, disagreements, etc. For some of the sports teams that my kids have been on, the application has asked for preferred practice night and a night that they can't meet. The league then choose the teams with an effort to keep things even (# of players, experience, etc.). This worked well and I'm wondering if some of this thought can be applied to setting up the initial Tiger dens.

[dg98adams]

New TL (Tiger Leader) should be comfortable as possible. In my Pack I recruited a TL for the whole year instead of monthly taking turns. I did let the TL primarily set the day they want to meet (assuming the meeting place was available).

 

I strongly suggested the TL setup a monthly rotation of ATL (other parents) so it was not too much on the new TL. The TL is the person handling communication to the CM/ACM.

[ScoutNut]

First of all, it is not your job to make up surveys, set up meeting nights and times, and split the Tigers into dens.

 

It is up to the CC, with assistance from the CM, to set up new dens, and recruit new den leaders.

 

At the Rally, as the CM and CC are accepting registrations, they should ask the new families if they have any days/times that they can absolutely NOT meet, and if their son has any close friends among the other new Tigers. The CC & CM, should be recruiting a den leader from the families at this time also (you can NOT lead both Tiger dens).

 

When each den meets depends on each den leader's schedule, when THEY are available, and the availability of the Pack's meeting space. The CC, CM, and the DL's for both dens can then sit down and split the boys, depending on the availability of the families, and friendships. It is also a good idea to split the experienced families evenly between each den (you said you have 4-6 siblings going into Tigers). The rest of the boys can be split evenly, and arbitrarily, between dens. Pulling names out of a bucket works.

 

You are responsible for the Tiger program of YOUR den ONLY.

 

Both you and the other den's leader should take all of the online training as soon as possible now, and the Tiger Leader Specific as soon as possible after your council's new training dates are published.

 

[Eagle92]

One of the things I liek to tell any new leader, whether CS, BS, or vent., is that there is a world of resources to help them in programming, and that usually eases their worries and makes it more likely they will volunteer. bett still is if when talking to parents about volunteering, you have a few example.

 

For CS you definitely want the HOW TO BOOK, SONG BOOK, LEADERS BOOK, and PROGRAM HELPS. best thing abotu the program helps is that they are available online for free, and you can print just what your den needs.

 

Also mention RTs and training. Alsomention online sources like this site and MYSCOUTING.

[thoover]

Thanks for all the advice, but, for purposes of this thread, I'm primarily interested in thoughts (methods / pros / cons / pitfalls) on setting up two balanced dens from a group of ~15 boys.

 

I've been involved with CS for a while as ACM, ADL, etc., and work closely with the CC and CM. I am comfortable with setting up the program for my Den once it is established.

 

Thanks again.

[Colorado_Penguin]

As a previous Tiger, Wolf, and now Bear Den Leader, my advise to you is that you wont be able to please everyone. Keep smaller dens, and sadly, there may be boys that drop out.

 

Case in point, earlier this year, we had some new boys that wanted to join as Wolves. No problem. But since we were up to 12 wolves, as the Den Leader, I told the parents we need to split the den and I'd help, but I can't run two dens. Some couldn't make it on our regularly scheduled night, so I offered to support another night and they could take that Den with CC approval. Only one other scout besides my son showed up for that night. It didn't look like any night would work, no matter what day of the week. The result is, I still have my core 6-7 boys and the others just dropped.

 

However, our Tigers this year needed to split into two dens of 3, because of Church and Sport/School activities conflicts. That worked out, and it looks like all will be returning in the Fall as Wolves.

 

With young boys, you really need smaller groups. There is a night and day difference between what my wifes GS/Brownie troop was like compared to my cub scouts. Now I know why cub scouts start at 1st grade and not Kindergarden.

[DeanRx]

I would tend to agree w/ Colorado... you can always start small and add boys, or if some drop you can always combine dens. Its much, much more difficult to split a den that had become too large to manage. Leave room for growth, if possible.

 

As for setting up Tiger dens... if it really is THAT big an issue, I suggest having each cub submit the names of 3 other Tigers they would like to be in a den with (thier buddies). Then you can promise that most will get 2 out of 3 and everyone will get at least 1 name out of the 3 on their list.

 

Then drop the names in a hat and draw if needed. This takes any perceived (or real) bias out of the equation. As for date / time of meetings - leave that to the individual DL's to work out w/ the families in their dens. If there is an absolute conflict (i.e. one cub is LDS and everyone else in the den wants den meetings on Sunday afternoons... then let them switch dens - but make this the EXCEPTION, not the rule).

 

Nothing says that if you have 14 Tigers, the dens must be 7 and 7. You could start with 8 and 6, or even 9 and 5. I wouldn't go with one den having less than 1/2 the size of the other den. If you do start off with unbalanced dens... be up front that any additional scouts that join will go to the den with the least # of members until the dens are balanced.