Splitting Dens

[thoover]

Let's assume a den has gotten too large (say, 14+), and it is time to split the den. I'd like your thoughts on how to best split the dens. If the current den meets on Thu and the new den decides to meet on another night, it would be pretty easy to say pick you night and go with that. Other thoughts on how to split?

 

What if 12 kiddos want to stay with the Thu den and only two decide to go with the other den?

 

Just looking for ideas on how to best approach splitting.

 

Thanks.

[dg98adams]

I would try to make sure you don't split up ALL the buddies....

 

Maybe play a game at a den meeting, where the un-obvious (to the cubs) goal is to see what the split "could" be.

 

For example (and I 'm sure you could make up a better game with more time).

 

Ask the cubs to pick 1-2 buddies to form a "mini"-soccer team.

 

Set up goals for as many groups of you have. Play 3-4 way game where to score they must get the ball thru "their goal".

 

Play long enough to "write down who is in each group".

 

Now ask the teams to combine with another team (reduce the teams to 2).

 

Play again with 2 goals.

 

This will let you have a natural selection....now if you have siblings not on the same team or co-car pools then you may have to trade "players". You could even introduce that into the game.

 

But even that may not work if the mix isn't right.

 

I did see Webelos cross into our Troop (10) get split in half for the NSP that did not go well because it was obvious the tightest friends got to stay together and the other boys felt "slighted".

 

They did not want to be broke up as Webelos as they were permitted to be in the same den since Tigers.

 

It could have been the CM who crossed over was a mentor for that 1 Patrol. We lost almost all of that other NSP in 6 months.

 

I think a "draw of straws" would have been more fair to the boys for the NSP and making the Mentor for both new Patrols the new ASM (old CM) with the an existing ASM as assistant Mentor.

 

 

[Twocubdad]

Very difficult. Most times you're going to end up with haves and have nots and that's not a good situation.

 

The first issue is obviously den leaders. Unless there are problems, most folks will want to stay with their original leader. Who will be DL of the new den

 

At the cub level I think you have to work through the parents. As DG noted, the big thing with the boys will be staying with their buddy. The parents generally know who that is and can provide that input. I would suggest an initial "what if" meeting with the parents. If you haven't done so, that gives the parents a chance to buy in to the split. The parents may all be fat and happy, not realizing the DL is going nuts with 14. Make the case for the split to them. Don't go in with how are we going to split the den, but "IF" we split the den, what would it look like? You may come out with a 7-7- split, two great DLs and meeting nights arranged. But if not you at least get an idea of where the meat hooks are and the problems you have to over come.

 

One option may to be to consider A and B dens which meet on the same night at the same place. The original DL would still be the DL but you would have two ADL for each sub den. Meetings would run almost like mini troop meetings. Everyone together for the opening and closing and maybe a quick business session, then split into breakouts for activities and advancement and other things where you need closer supervision and lower cub/leader ratios. The advantage is that you haven't "split" the den -- everyone still feels like they are still in the same den. But you've brought additional leadership in keep things at a more managable level when needed.

 

Admittedly, if this is a Tiger or Wolf den, you probably want to bite the bullet on the split. But if you're going into Webelos and only looking at a year or 18 months, this may work.

[John-in-KC]

The better solution is to open that new den as the 9th and 10 boys arrived. Then, when you're at 14, you've a den of 8, and a den of 6, which still has room to grow.

[Twocubdad]

Been down that road John. What do you do if it's another year before #11 comes along? What if neither of the two boys' parents are able to serve as DL? What if #10 is the best friend of an existing Scout who recruited him into the den?

 

It's the old saw about boiling a frog. You'd be nuts to start a den with 14 boys but occasionally they get there. With 12, 14 or 16 kids in a den woulda, coulda, shoulda is easy at that point. But how do you make that call when #9 shows up and wants to be in Cubs with the friend who invited him?(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[thoover]

Had lunch with the CM today. At this point, I think we're looking at seeing if enough parents prefer an alternative night for den meetings and seeing if a new DL steps up.

 

If that doesn't fly, I believe we'll likely try to pick up a second ADL (and perhaps a couple of Den Chiefs), and split the den up between opening and closing activites to keep the numbers managable for all the activities...perhaps even run 2 - 3 stations.

 

Any other thoughts appreciated, however.

[DeanRx]

We have a Den in our pack that has been as high as 15 at one point. The DL has been asked about a split several times by both the CC and myself(CM). They want to stay together and have at least 3 ADL's that keep things running smoothly. They often split up den meeting activities into 3 sub-dens, but the boys take turns with who is in each sub-group, so they still get to hang out with all the kids in the den.

 

I'm gald - it works for them. They are affectionately known as our "pack within a pack". Best part is, when these guys get ready to bridge over to Boy Scouts, the DL is already talking about starting a new Troop and they will have plenty of scouts to get things going (no Troops in the neighborhood yet, so we could become the feeder to the new unit).

 

There's more than one way to skin that cat, so long as you have parent helpers (ADL's).

[tbrooke2000]

thanks for all the discussing back and forth.... I have been "my" boys leader since Tigers and we are starting Bears this fall. I just found out last night at our Summer Bowling night that we have added three more! (bringing me now to 14).

 

We have discussed splitting of the den last year when I was at 10 and working on 11... No one wanted to split. Luckily, I have some very active parents that help out at each meeting (my "unofficial" ADLs).

 

I am going to have the "unofficials" become "official" ADLs and do the rotation of stations. I think this woud be the best for us too!

 

Yours in Scouting,

Tracy

Pack 5

Lancaster OH

[SeattlePioneer]

I REALLY agree with DG98 --- you want to give boys choices over which den they are in as much as possible.

 

I'd look for ways to let boys choose, and gradually establish new dens over time. The "Timber Wolves" would be on group with their own parent leading them and the "gray Wolves" another.

 

The Den Leader starts by drawing up an activity plan for both groups, which each put on in their own way and adapt as needed. Gradually the parents becfome Assistant Den Leaders and the Den Leaders.

[afscout]

We split our Tiger den of 14 into 2 Wolf dens. The Tiger DL decided that he was burnt out and didn't want to continue. Two new DLs stepped up and picked boys much like picking teams. They asked the parents if there were certain boys that wanted to stay together (my son and his best friend for example). It turned out well and both dens did well. The boys are pretty adaptable so splitting the den wasn't a big thing for them.

[83Eagle]

I would ask the boys and parents what they want to do. If they want to split and you get a leader, problem solved. If not, consider two patrols in the den to do break off sessions and keep things manageable. The second option works very well for us, despite detractors here who will say it is not allowed, and we've done it since Bear year.

[Eagledad]

>>If that doesn't fly, I believe we'll likely try to pick up a second ADL (and perhaps a couple of Den Chiefs), and split the den up between opening and closing activites to keep the numbers managable for all the activities...perhaps even run 2 - 3 stations.

 

Any other thoughts appreciated, however.