Cub Master forcing me to take New Boys?

[dg98adams]

Wow, this is very simple......I don't understand all the hoop-la.

 

When I was CM, I would not FORCE a DL to take new Scouts into a full den (which by your description yours probably is).

 

I may ASK, though..... as that is the easiest option.

 

Once I know (or should have known) your stance....it's now time to just FORM a new 4-youth Den. There could be 4 parents/guardians (at least) to recruit from, assuming no cub is a twin.

 

This new DL might need to be propped up by an ADL or ACM for a short period.

 

Very soon though, your "core" den will cross over to a Scout Troop, where a "Patrol" lives or dies at the the will of those in the Patrol, and the PLC (Patrol Leaders Council) ...not the adults anyway.

(This message has been edited by dg98adams)

[denleaderamy]

Yes, my answer has been the same.

 

We have had friends tell us that if we have a spot open up, they would love to be in the Den. My answer is the same, it was an agreement made between my ADL and myself upon forming a new den.

So, yes if my son asked me if his buddy could join, I would say he is welcome to join Cub Scouting but that our den was full right now.

 

Did we hand select the den? Absolutely not. We told the CM we would form a den. He sent out an e-mail to all asking if anyone would like to transfer into the new den and within 30 minutes we were at 8.

 

Are we closed to making new friends? Nope. In fact we go out of our way when interating with the Pack to break our boys apart and mix them in with the younger boys and make sure that everyone is involved.

 

Are we a clique? Nope. We are open to working with others. If the den had a boy drop out, the den would be happy to take in an additional scout.

 

The parents in the den have always known that our limit was 8. Many of them are involved in Girl Scouting or Coach teams of their own and feel that there need to be firm limits in place.

 

I will see the CM and CC this evening. We'll wait and see what they say.

[ghermanno]

Wow!

 

DenleaderAmy,

 

Yes, a "normal" den is from 8 - 10 boys. You have stated that you will work with no more than 8 and your CM/CC/COR agreed.

 

On the other side of the picture, I know a person that saved his money so that he could join Cub Scouts, filled out the app., went to the Den Leaders home and delivered the app.

 

She was all smiles until she read the address of the boy and told him she would not allow him in unless his mother would start a den and be the leader. She had been a leader for many years and decided she had enough. The boy was the youngest of 11 kids (6 boys and 5 girls) and never did get into Cub Scouts.

 

The other leader felt she was justified too. The boys mother knew what was required. Why should she take her kid?

 

Here it is 40years later and I still remember that leader telling me "no, get you mom to do it". I NEVER turned a boy away from Cubs or Boys Scouts. I would find another den, help another person start a den, or start another den myself to keep that from happening.

 

Feel justified. Years from now, the boys will remember.

 

YiS,

 

Rick

[Nike]

DL Amy,

 

If you really want to stick to your guns on this, I really hope you are also going to be more than happy to help out the new WEB 1 DL anyway you can. I wonder what's going on in your pack. Why are you willing to die on this hill?

 

 

[Lisabob]

There's just way too much emotion in this thread. Amy, do what you are comfortable with doing. That's really about all we can ask of any volunteer. Keep in mind that pretty much ALL of us are volunteers too though. Not like somebody else is going to get paid the big bucks for dealing with this problem.

 

And stick around. You might get more "advice" than you really want sometimes (hey, don't ask if you don't want people's opinions!) but there are a lot of folks here who are also great resources as you go through the year, and particularly as you work on transitioning your Webelos into boy scouts. Boy Scouting is a whole different world!

 

Have fun with your 8 guys this year. Webelos DL was my favorite volunteer position.

 

Yours in Scouting,

Lisa

[FScouter]

"I was defending my character."

 

You know of course that your character speaks for itself. Character is determined by what a person does and does not do. Comments by anyone about the character of another are merely comments from the peanut gallery. They have zero affect on another's character. No defense is necessary.

 

The obligation of a den leader is to operate a den as outlined in the Cub Scout Leader Book. That others, including the Cubmaster, the committee, the chartered org, the parents of the boys (all boys have 2 parents unless one of them is dead), and the den leader that quit are NOT doing their jobs does not reflect at all upon you, the den leader that IS doing her job.

 

I have respect for the person that does a good job, and refuses to be intimidated by others.

 

 

 

[Mrw1]

I read the first and last pages of this thread and not the middle so far.

 

I was a den leader for both of my boys when they were cubs, includn=ing one year as both a Web 1 and a Tiger leader and the next as both a Web2 and a Wolf leader.

 

Prior to becoming the den leader for my older son's Bear year, I was a single parent with a preschooler as my husband was employed out of town for 18 months. There was no way during that period that I could have possibly been a DL or ADL. We were present for all the den and pack activities, but no way could I have led. I am greatful for others that could do so.

 

My final year with my younger son's Web den we absorbed the remains of another den that dissolved. I agreed to take the boys but wanted one of them to have a parent along as an additional adult to for sanity's sake. This was also in a den where I already had a special needs kid who really used most of the den chief's assistance time.

 

The reason the other den fell apart was due to a leader's work committment. They did have a dad who could be at meetings to be extra hands if I needed them. They did not have another parent who was capable of being a den leader. One of the parents of the boys I took in was clearly not able to work with kids beyond his own. One of the other boys had parents in the midst of a fairly nasty divorce and Cubs was his peaceful, routine place in his world of chaos.

 

Don't always assume that each of those extra boys has a parent(s) who are at all able to assume the leadership role.

 

I know you like your group as it is and I agree that too many can get out of hand, but consider taking another one or two if a parent cannot step up for them. You may get lucky and have new boys join Cubs at the round-up and bring along a new den leader so that the extra boys are only a temporary addition. But I will be surprised if you actually sign up 2-4 new 4th graders. They just don't join at that age if they were not there before.

[Mrw1]

I read the first and last pages of this thread and not the middle so far.

 

I was a den leader for both of my boys when they were cubs, includn=ing one year as both a Web 1 and a Tiger leader and the next as both a Web2 and a Wolf leader.

 

Prior to becoming the den leader for my older son's Bear year, I was a single parent with a preschooler as my husband was employed out of town for 18 months. There was no way during that period that I could have possibly been a DL or ADL. We were present for all the den and pack activities, but no way could I have led. I am greatful for others that could do so.

 

My final year with my younger son's Web den we absorbed the remains of another den that dissolved. I agreed to take the boys but wanted one of them to have a parent along as an additional adult to for sanity's sake. This was also in a den where I already had a special needs kid who really used most of the den chief's assistance time.

 

The reason the other den fell apart was due to a leader's work committment. They did have a dad who could be at meetings to be extra hands if I needed them. They did not have another parent who was capable of being a den leader. One of the parents of the boys I took in was clearly not able to work with kids beyond his own. One of the other boys had parents in the midst of a fairly nasty divorce and Cubs was his peaceful, routine place in his world of chaos.

 

Don't always assume that each of those extra boys has a parent(s) who are at all able to assume the leadership role.

 

I know you like your group as it is and I agree that too many can get out of hand, but consider taking another one or two if a parent cannot step up for them. You may get lucky and have new boys join Cubs at the round-up and bring along a new den leader so that the extra boys are only a temporary addition. But I will be surprised if you actually sign up 2-4 new 4th graders. They just don't join at that age if they were not there before.

[BrentAllen]

When I was CM, I knew I could never force a DL to take on more boys than they wanted. Just like everyone else, the DLs can vote with their feet. If I tried to force them to do something they didn't want to do, they would either just quit or take their Den to another Pack.

 

One August we had a bunch of new 2nd Graders join the Pack. The other 3 Wolf Dens were full (overflowing) and we had 7 new boys wanting to join. I asked the existing DLs if they could take any more boys, and they all said they couldn't, though they wished they could. I respected their decisions. As CM, I told the new parents they would need to form a new Den. No one stepped forward at the School Night for Scouting. We kept working on the issue that week, and still did not have a new leader as of the first Pack Meeting. I finally took all the new parents into a classroom and laid down the law. The existing Dens are overloaded. This will be a new Den, or your sons will not be in this Pack. Your options are someone steps up to be the DL or you look into joining another Pack in the area. I told them I needed their answer when they came out of the room, and left. It was like a big poker game. Finally one of the parents stepped up, and she and her husband have been very involved with the Pack since then.

 

On the other side of the coin, I had a Webelos II DL that had 15 boys in his Den. The other Webelos DL moved away, and no one would step up. This DL has a huge heart and agreed to take them on. The other parents recognized the huge committment this DL was making, and stepped up to help as assistants. In the end it all worked out, and 14 of the 15 boys crossed over into Boy Scouts. As SM, I recruited this guy hard, more than anyone else. I saw that he was the type who would do whatever it took to get the job done. Luckily he joined out Troop and he has become a very important part of our leadership team.

 

Amy, I would suggest you pray for guidance and do what is best for you and your Den.

[AnniePoo]

I think that better than anyone, Amy knows how many kids she is capable of or willing to handle in her den. We should all be thanking her, and not be laying any sort of guilt trip on her. Amy, hold your ground and don't take more than 8 if that's your max.

[fuschiafox]

As a former Cubmaster for over 12 years I can tell you that your right about cutting off the number of boys in your den. The Cubmaster should let you limit the number in your den to 8. Has your assistant thought of becoming a den leader for the new boys then one of your parents could take either a rotation basis to help you or one of them could step up to assistant? Recruit one of the new parents to take the role too. Your open to a lot of options either use your parents, your assistant, new parent, or hold a recruitment night to gain some more leaders to take on a new den. Hope this helps you some.

[prairie]

Four pages and I didn't see one mention of looking for somebody that has been away from the program for a while. Somebody whos own children are grown and gone but no grandkids yet or they live far away.

I always feel lucky looking back on the fact Mrs. McMartin ran a den of twelve or more mostly by herself even though her own boy had moved on 3 years earlier.

As it stands now, this fall my fellow scouter whos son is in his mid twentys and I who never had a child will be leading the Webelos, seems none of the parents wanted the job. We do have one advantage, when we go home its to nice quiet houses.