Former Den Leader / Parent Conflict

[ScoutNut]

Sorry, but at least a part of the blame for this has to fall on the Pack. Per your statements, the Pack KNEW that this leader was charging outrageous den dues, and that the Pack was loosing boys because of it. Yet they did nothing because they thought the den leader was "Great".

 

Then when the poop hit the fan, the Pack leadership caved and paid the blackmail just to sweep everything under the rug.

 

Shame on you!

 

You do realize that you have now set a precedent? Any parent who has done a Pack fundraiser can now come to you and demand "their" money.

 

Have your CO contact a lawyer. With this mess they are far from done, and will need one.

 

BTW - the amount of homework given does not equate to how good the BSA leader is. In fact, in most cases the opposite is true.

[ghermanno]

Twitterpad,

 

WOW! You stated that you knew of her problems "before" she joined your Pack ("She removed a boy six months ago from her den because of a dispute with a parent. And, she has had several run-ins with District activities. She left her previous pack because of a similar blow up. I am the one she called when she left her pack wanting to join ours. She told me about the conflict, but of course, it was all of the other pack's fault. I know that NO ONE is 100% the victim and no one is 100% innocent. But, this became a trend for her.")

 

Did anyone talk to the other Pack? You/your Pack knew she was charging $15@mo per boy (x 6 boys = $90 a month) and did NOT require any receipts?

 

Has anyone in your Pack gone to training? Do you subsidize other dens? do you ever ask for reciepts? Does the Pack have a "dues" policy or does it just let everyone decide on thier own how much to charge?

 

If this was just one month I would say shame on her but "Years"? SHAME ON YOU! You and your Pack let this get way out of hand. My previous Pack budgeted about $90 per month for the Pack (not for one den). Yes, the budget is old but less than 5 years.

 

Get your pack some training and get ALL the leaders on the same page. This is for the boys, not a profitibale business for adults to fleece other adults (or kids). If your books were audited, and they may be if a parent requests, how will your CO explain the lack of any receipts for the den for years? The IH is responsible for the Pack and the finances. It reflects on their finances as well if not done properly.

 

Sorry, I had to vent after realizing that the Pack ignored the problem and I have to assume it was from lack of training.

 

My $0.02

 

Rick

 

[Twitterpated]

 

 

We didn't know about the den charges until after this had happened. Parents came to us wanting to know about their money. Only then was the committee aware of what was being charged.

 

I will take the blame for allowing this person to bring her den to our pack. In all honesty, I believed her when she called us up wanting to leave one pack and come to ours because of how "that pack treated them". Looking BACK, I saw that it wasn't the packs' fault and this was a trend with her. Only after we had issues. Our pack never had problems specifically with her until the last six months and we did have a huge discussion about how she handled kicking a boy out back then. We discussed it among the committee, listened to her side and felt that she was being honest with us and just handled the situation poorly. She promised she overreacted and begged us to take her back as a den leader.

 

I did address problems she had with the District even though it did not effect the pack at the time. I saw the trouble with the district and at the time was grateful everything was okay with the pack and her den.

 

We had one serious problem six months ago and dealt with it. When she came to us in the beginning, I knew of her problems with another pack and believed her. (My bad.) Only recently when this other serious problem arose did we put it all together. Other people on our committee weren't necessarily aware of problems that didn't pertain to our pack. I didn't feel comfortable telling them the trouble she was brewing somewhere else for fear it would hurt the pack. I DID go to her and try find out what was going on and what could be done to help. I was "trying" to keep the trouble from coming to the pack.

 

Looking back, none of us really knew the trouble brewing and only saw one episode in our pack before this last outburst. This outburst was just so over the top, there was no damage control to be done.

 

I'm sure I could have handled it better, but to be honest, I felt her heart was in the right place and wanted her to be successful as a leader and probably gave her too much of the benefit of the doubt. I made a fool of myself trying to work with her and even defending her at times. More than angry or shocked, I am hurt that someone could act this way. Especially in an organization such as scouts.

 

I'm just a volunteer too and I have all of the training required of my position along with ten years as a committee member in scouting. Other than not trusting this person, I'm not really sure how I could have handled things differently. Some people are just going to hurt you no matter what you do.

 

 

[Lisabob]

I don't see any point in everybody jumping all over Twitterpated here. Clearly this situation didn't turn out in a great way and he or she is aware of that. Although it could certainly have been handled differently, at this point it is too late to go back and have a do-over.

 

Having been a leader in a pack that disintegrated around me, I know what it feels like to be holding the bag and having a lot of angry parents confronting me. Not fun. The good news is that it will pass, and if you use it as a re-building moment, a much stronger pack can emerge from this unfortunate turn of events.

 

So, moving forward. I like the idea of your pack having a committee decision on an upper limit on den dues. $15/month is too high. (For reference, about 5 years ago as a Webelos den leader, we were operating on about $10 per boy per year!) If you are concerned about control over the den dues money in the future, you might consider charging a one-time den supplies fee as part of your overall pack membership fee. Then the committee can dole out the den dues to the DLs for the year, based either on receipts submitted, or based on formal requests from the DLs in advance of purchases. That gives the committee an opportunity as well to clearly state to the DLs who are requesting den $ that any supplies purchased with that $ belong to the den & pack - NOT to the DL. Whoever is doling out the money to the DLs could also keep a record of what was purchased, so as to request that supplies be returned at the end of the pack's year.

 

Next thing is to figure out how, going forward, you can have better oversight over your DLs, and not just in terms of $ but also in terms of what sort of program they're offering. If you look at the organization of a Cub Pack, you'll see that Den Leaders report to the Cub Master. The CM ought to be able to ask any DL what is going on in their den this month. If it sounds outrageous, the CM should alert the DL to that fact and perhaps also bring it up with the committee.

 

Another way of keeping tabs on what dens are doing is to run a pack newsletter. Ask each den to submit a short summary every month of what they did/what they'll be doing . At least that way you won't be taken by surprise.

 

Another thing you can do is to have a pack membership chair who is in charge of maintaining records. It would be that person's job to deal with who dropped out. DLs should be expected to report any potential drop-outs to the membership chair promptly.

 

You might also need to figure out how to regularly publicize your Committee Chair's contact info for all the parents in the pack, so they know who to call if there's a problem that has them considering leaving. I know a lot of times, parents don't really understand the structure of a cub pack. They may assume the DL is totally in control when, in fact, there are other adult leaders that a parent could turn to outside the den.

 

Another catch-point could be your advancement chair, who should have a roster for each den. If the adv. chair sees that a den with 8 boys only has 5 earning patches/advancing/etc. at the last couple of pack meetings, then the adv. chair might inquire about the status of the other 3 boys in the den. This could help you catch drop-outs more quickly, and potentially, nip a problem in the bud.

 

Yet another thing to consider is what makes for a good den program. Field trips are fun. But for the little guys, local activities are probably best and are usually either free or very low cost. Think trips to the fire station, the public library, the police station, etc. As the boys get older they may be ready for more, but 2 costly field trips every month is too much - hardly gives you time to run a regular den program, and as you know, it may get expensive. Occasional special outings like a sleepover at a local museum or a trip to see a play or something are ok, but they should be special and not the norm. You might find that the Program Helps booklet issued by the BSA every year (and probably available, either free or at low cost, in your local scout shop) gives your DLs some good ideas about how to run monthly den meetings that don't cost a fortune.

 

Don't forget, too, that a lot of times, the boys are pleased as punch with simple activities. It tends to be the adults who start dreaming big and can't be satisfied with "little" stuff that the kids would most likely enjoy just as much.

 

And finally - if your CO has decided that this woman cannot serve as a leader, then that's final (for your pack). She won't be back. She might choose to join a new pack and they might be foolish enough to give her a power position, but if that happens it is not your problem. If another pack calls you to ask about her, be honest but fair in your comments. If you haven't done so already, make sure your district staff (Unit Commissioner, District Commissioner, District Executive) all know she was a real problem in your pack so that they can keep an eye out for her in other packs. That's really all you can do.

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Twitter, I've been in situations not too different from what you describe. The unforunate bit is that you will lose some more families before this is over. Some will simply decide they haven't got the time, money, or patience to wait and see whether things get better. But others will give you the benefit of the doubt, and happily, you can also recruit new boys next year! You might want to focus on your incoming Tiger and Wolf scouts next year (where you typically get a lot of new recruits) and make sure they have a great program so that you can rebuild the base for your pack. I was amazed at how quickly we could turn around a pack that almost died due to adult misbehaviors. Within about 2 years, it became one of the fastest-growing, most vibrant packs in the district. That can certainly happen for you too, especially since the problems occurred mostly within just one den for you. Good luck, and let us know how things turn out.

 

Yours in Scouting,

Lisa