Multiple Guardians

[AdamTwo]

I had a parent ask this question and I'm not sure how to answer her. She is the designated "guardian" for her son. However, it is likely that other family members might escort him to events/trips/meetings/etc. For instance, dad, grandpa, uncle, and so forth. What sort of documentation do we need here? Does it depend on the event?

Thanks

A2

[scoutldr]

I never really gave it much thought. I ask Johnny, "do you have a ride home", and he says "my Grandpa is picking me up". If I get a chance, I go over and introduce myself to Grandpa, so then we know each other. Not sure why you would need anything else. Now if there is a bitter custody battle going on, the mom might say "under no circumstances is Johnny to go home with his dad". Ok...but it's her responsibility to let us know there are restrictions, and we will do our best to accomodate it.

[lagosscouter]

I am a first time writer here and a Tiger cub DL in a direct service unit in Nigeria. Most of the families here have nannies and house help.

 

The Tiger program says that any trusted adult can act as the scouts partner. While the intention of the program is for the family to be involved - I did allow the Nannies on occasions to fill in if the parent was not able to. However I made a special effort to be in contact with the parents and keep them excited and interested in what we were doing.

 

Fortunately - I had a fantastic group of parents who never abused the use of a nanny as a partner. I felt it was better to accept whoever the parent who signed the registration form chose as a designate then to exclude the scout for not having a partner.

 

My Scouts went on to earn their Tiger rank by February and have earned Leave no trace and emergency preparedness as well. From discussions with my scouts and their parents I expect 100% retention in my den and I am looking forward to a fantastic year as wolves!!

 

I do not see an issue as long as the registering parent designates the adult and informs you. All of the adults you mentioned are part of this scouts family - and that this many people are willing to take part in his scouting experiance is a tribute to the family

 

LagosScouter

 

[PACK15NISSAN]

I don't know of rules this violates. As long as there is an adult there, in fact is this boy is not a Tiger than technically no parent has to be at the meeting however it is a good practice to have some one there. If there are a Tiger encouraging having some consistancy with who stays with him would be ideal but it is understood that not all circumstances can be altered in a way that would allow this. It is better to have him in scouting with a different person each week than not to have him at all.

 

As far as camping is concerned the G2SS says this "In most cases, each youth member will be under the supervision of a parent or guardian. In all cases, each youth participant is responsible to a specific adult." That specific adult does not have to be mom or dad, but they do need to be over the age of 18.

 

As far as scoutldr's comment goes, I wouldn't wish that circumstance on my worst enemy. We lost a scout of that very problem (custody problems. Mom came to me at the first meeting and said that she and her ex alternated weeks with "Johnny" and that we both try to be consistant in getting him to scouting. Several months past and mom came to me after dropping of Johnny and said that dad can't pick him up and not to let him. I handed my den over to my assistants and took mom and we along with the CC and CM had a quick talk (I am also the ACM) about why dad couldn't pick him up and if there anything we needed to know. We then explained that we cannot deny access to the child without paperwork showing that dad couldn't have him. Turns out there as no custody agreement and this next part led to us losing the scout. We kindly told her that legally we could not deny dad access and that we would be happy to help them both through the CO in anyway we could. She not so kindly told us this was crap and that she would be taking her son and leaving.

 

Bottom line if it is custody problem, try your best not to get involved. I know sometimes you have to, but trust me you don't want the mess it can bring in your program.

 

Other than that, no worries on who brings the boy as long as they are responsible.

[evmori]

I'd do what scoutldr posted! Don't over think it!

[AdamTwo]

Thanks for all your replies. I don't believe that there is any custody issue, this mom was just wondering if another authorized adult could bring the Scout without additional permission.

Thanks again.

[eagle77]

Pack15nissan,

I would have left your pack too. When my ex-wife and I were first divorced we had joint custody of our son. Later she met someone and he moved in with her. Found out that when she was not at home her boyfriend was using cigarettes to disciplin my son. Until all the proof and court things were done I had no documentation that said I had sole custody. The only thing I could do to protect my son was to request to the school, YMCA, coaches, and Cub pack that the mother had no right to take or be with my son. Once everything was said and done I was awarded custody and the mother was on supervised vistation. One of the things that needs to be remembered here is that a good amount of child abductions are by family members. Custody battles between parents can be very ugly.

[PACK15NISSAN]

eagle77:

 

Not that this has anything to do with the topic but I do feel the need to defend my position. What the YMCA did in your case was not only wrong and stupid but illegal. If there is no custody agreement than both parents are the legal guardian and you cannot deny rights to one of them based upon the wishes of the other. If this where the case than when I dad was mad at mom he would use the kid against her, denying her the right to see him or vice versa. Not that doesn't happen already but it would become more common practice.

 

Bottom line is that both parents are guardians unless the courts decide otherwise or there is something legally written up that says mom can't get the boy or dad can only pick him up the weekends. I realize this may not be common at the moment but in the near future I think more and more people will see it come up.

 

Frankly eagle77, I wouldn't won't you in my Pack anyway. You sound like the kind of person that ignores the law, whether it is right or wrong, and institutes your own system of justice.

[eagle77]

Somebody needs to chill a little. My point was that until there is some kind of documentation what does a parent do? Should I have cut my son off from all activities and have him locked in the basement? I explained to all what was going on and that once I had the proper documents I would hand a copy over to them. The fear and stress that I had as to whether or not this man and my ex would try and take my son away I would not wish on my worst enemy. Oh and yes I would go above the law to protect and safe guard my son. Wouldn't you?

[PACK15NISSAN]

You can say that I need to chill, but that would be like running around waving a red cape in front of bull and then being upset and blaming the bull for charging you.

 

You began by saying "I would have left your pack too". You may disagree with how I handle things but don't attack me and then get upset when I retailiate. Yes, I would protect my children no matter what! However, in this case all I did was obey the law, we asked if there was anything that we should know and offered to help she simply didn't want to share nor want our help. There is nothing that we could nor should have done differently.

[eagle77]

Then I did not interprit the post correctly. If she wasn't willing to give any further info then I too would have felt there was something fishy going on. I would have handled it the same as you did, sorry.

[rjscout]

I don't think the Pack/Den leaders have a legal right to deny access by the other parent without legal documentation. It should be up to the parent to be there in time to retrieve the scout before the offending parent attempts to. I would go above and beyond to protect my child, but I can't expect someone else to go against the law when my word is only one side of the story. I hope that I don't have to run into this from any of the three sides.

[evmori]

Like I said, don't over think it!

[Scouter&mom]

OK... I think everyone (almost) is over reacting. I think this is just a den leader who was scared by YPT and trying to do the right thing. If you have not dealt with multiple guardians and non-traditional families, it is scary!! You only know the horror stories.

 

That being said, we ask adults to come in and pick up children. That helps some. We have a group of brothers, sisters and neighbors that ride together to and from meetings and we let the 4 go with whichever parent (or grandparent) comes to get them, with just a brief greeting from a pack adult. For campouts, we have had boys go with uncles or grandparents, when another parent wasn't available. We just have the parent sign the permission form and put a note that they will be with whatever adult is going. We do ask that they consider a medical power of attorney, but haven't required one yet. No we don't want to be involved in custody battles. I think if I had a parent say, my child cannot go with his other parent, no matter what, I would ask the parent to stay, so the troop didn't have to get involved. I would think that would reduce the risk of abduction greatly.