Leader DUI...

[Lady_Leigh67]

Wow, it's been a while since I last visited. Things have been going well until recently. We (Pack Leadership) were notified that one of our Pack Leaders recently was charged with a DUI. And, a 120 day jail time. The leader's spouse is a leader as well, and that is how we found out. What is the next step we should take? Has any of you had to deal with something like this?

[Twocubdad]

Yes. Turn it over to the Scout Executive. Not the DE, but the council executive.

 

If this guy got six months active jail time, it wasn't likely his first time. He may well get a letter telling him he may not drive on pack outings and quite likely further sanctions.

[shortridge]

A word of caution -

 

Charges don't mean he's been found guilty. The 120 days jail time may be the maximum sentence that he could receive.

[DeanRx]

Do you know if it was charged with, pled to, or convicted of? Big difference on all three.

 

Arrested and charged but pending trial, I don't know if there is much you can / should do... that whole innocent until proven guilty thing we have in this country. I just wouldn't let anyone from scouts ride with him, but I doubt he has his liscense intact pending the outcome of the trial or the entrance of a plea.

 

"Pled to" or "convicted of" - even a "no contest" plea... then you have some issues to address. Fisrt is what role (if any) should he still have in unit leadership. At the very least, he would have lost the privelidge of driving anyone for any reason in my book. I'd honestly be in favor of asking him to step aside for the good of the unit. Heck, if it was me (then again I'm responsible about this type of thing so it should NEVER be an issue - but never say never).... I would personally remove myself from a leadership role due to the embarrasemnt, humliation and loss of trust I would incur from the parents and scouts in the unit, but thats just me.

 

AS someone else stated - time to get your Exec council involved. I'm sure they have a national plicy to guide them (we have them for everything else in BSA), so let the folks at council know of the issue and they can guide you.

 

Good luck - With both this guy and his wife as leaders, I'd be guessing you're getting ready to loose at least one adult volunteer and probably two b/c I don't know many spouses that would stick around a group that doesn't welcome their husband / wife (even if the outcast status is self-inflicted).

 

I'd tell council and start thinking about who you're going to get to replace those two leaders...

 

Thats a tough and crappy situation to have happen in a unit. Maybe with time, the family will be able to continue to participate, but I would doubt in a leadership role. Leaders must be able to be trusted and this guy has betrayed that trust in a very serious manner. Forgiveness and personal improvement are hallmarks of the scouting program, but its much easier to talk about 2nd chances than it is to impliment them in real life - like I said before - best of luck on this one.... I have a feeling your unit will need it.

[SctDad]

There has been a lot of good advice about what you should do. I would say that when it comes to what you should do about these leaders permenant leadership status, take your guidance from you SE. THey will have the best advice for you in this aspect. I would also say that if the SE says that they can still be leaders, talk with them and let them understand that with their history that they will not be able to drive any Cub Scouts to any events. If the wife drives then that should be OK. But not the Father.

 

The SE will be your best resource on how to deal with this. The other thing that I would say is that if the guy still wants to be a leader you may want to consider having him fill out a new application and have the council rerun their background.

[Lady_Leigh67]

Yes, he pled guilty at trial and received the 120 day sentence. He is currentl petitioning for work release, which would cut his sentence about half.

 

Thank you all for the advice. I will be contacting our SE this morning about this.

 

Also, knowing the husband, he will not step down on his own accord (I would be shocked).

 

 

[packsaddle]

Bob Dylan, right?

 

Anyway, if he blew more than the legal limit, it is not good enough to wait for trial...that could be years down the road. I think you should involve the CO as well. If he blew more than the limit do whatever it takes to have him booted. The CO may pre-empt the council and terminate the guy. The CO doesn't have to give a reason. The guy needs to be dumped...with great prejudice. I'd be happy to do it for you.

 

Edited part: Hi, I see we were typing at the same time. Forget my conditions about the legal limit. He pled to the deed. Dump him any way you can as quickly as you can. Humiliate him. Make him know he is a detriment to society. Personally, I'd give him a good kick on the way out the door.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Beavah]

Dump him any way you can as quickly as you can. Humiliate him. Make him know he is a detriment to society. Personally, I'd give him a good kick on the way out the door.

 

Oi! Another hang 'em high, zero tolerance sort eh?

 

Alcohol is a funny thing. Can be a real problem for some folks. Hard thing to get a handle on. And in da present economy, a loss of job or impending loss can make even a good man drink a bit.

 

I think yeh might choose to mention it to da SE, but yeh tell the COR/IH and follow da instructions of your CO and its staff. If your CO is a church, I expect that they have some pretty strong feelings about how to handle a family like this with compassion and understanding, while still protecting the kids and the program. Your unit leaders work for da CO, and it's the CO's call.

 

By and large if the fellow has been a responsible and committed leader around the boys with no problems, I think yeh might consider allowing him to continue. At least as long as there are other adults around who could catch it if he came to a meeting drunk (two deep even at meetings, not counting his wife). Driving won't be a problem, as I'm sure his license will be suspended for quite a stretch.

 

Beavah

 

[packsaddle]

My intolerance comes from personal experience. Family nearly killed, drunk crossed centerline at high speed. Family on the way to school at 0800. Drunk blew 0.35, also on Xanax, no license, borrowed car, minimal insurance. Years of litigation. Drunk fined $200, no jail. Went on for airline pilot training. Have a nice day.

I make no apologies. I have a special contempt for these slimes. Zero tolerance.

[Eagle007]

In my humble opinion this leader's actions have there consequences - being removed as a leader. If my son were one of his scouts, I would feel the need to step in and say either the leader is removed/voluntarily leaves the unit or my son and I do. I'm not judging the man for that was already done in court. I would simply feel very uncomfortable having this man as a leader/example of what my son is supposed to follow.

[Eagle92]

Very tricky situation. If this was at a scout event, then the obvious answer would be to remove him. If this wasn't a scout event, then it gets tricky. Definately talk to CC,COR, and/or IH about the situation. A call to teh SE may be needed as well. I do know that 10 years ago DUI was not a dismissable offense, had a DFS caught over the limit and he still had a job.

 

I understand Packsaddle's response, lost a friend to a drunk driver when she was 18 and had her life in front of her. But I also met one guy who luckily didn't hurt anyone but himself. He was left paralized and his entire purpose inliving is to tell people the evils of drinking and driving.

[Eagle007]

DUI is DUI. As a former law enforcement officer and having a three time convicted DUI to come very, very close to running me over head-on in my patrol unit, there is no excuse for a DUI whether it is during a scouting event or otherwise. I have NO SYMPATHY for this leader's actions. If any one of our scouts, scouters, friends or family had been injured/killed by the actions surrounding the DUI itself then I don't believe we would be having this debate as to whether we think, in our opinions, the leader should stay or go.

[Hal_Crawford]

I right this with the assumption that the leader and his wife have one or more boys in the pack.

 

I think before anyone erects a public pillory at the pack meeting they should stop to consider the collateral damage that could be inflicted on the leaders' son(s). I have no sympathy for drunk drivers but I suspect things are already rough enough for the boy(s) and wife. Take whatever direction the SE provides, remove the man from the troop leadership if deemed appropriate (and IMHO it should be) but do it quietly for the sake of the boy(s). If mom wants to remain a leader that is great because it will provide some stability for the boy(s). She and her husband may not be on the best of terms right now either so throwing him out of the unit may not bother her at all... she may have the locks changed by the time he gets out anyway.

 

You have my sympathy;I'm glad I have never had to deal with this.

Hal

[Basementdweller]

A formal request for resignation is in order from the Pack Committee. Then a public he left for personal reasons and then let it be. You will probably lose the entire family.

[AnniePoo]

A drinking problem is one thing, but getting behind the wheel while drunk is another. A high school friend of mine was killed by a drunk driver. Then, about 10 years ago, the family of a guy I went to high school with was hit head-on by a drunk going the wrong way on the interstate. He was severely injured. His wife (friend of my sister) was killed instantly. Five-year-old son had two broken arms and a broken back, and is now a paraplegic. Twin son #1, age 2, only had a broken leg. Twin son #2, age 2, had severe brain injury and he's still in a vegetative state.

 

So, I have no sympathy for the leader. Penalties for DUI should be higher than they are.

 

I'm not sure how to handle it regarding his responsibilities as a scout leader, however, without somehow punishing the wife and/or son, even indirectly. He screwed up, they didn't..