Oh My! Seeking advice on this one...

[DrBeado]

I just read this thread for the first time. Wow! Makes our Troop's problems seem minor (same issues of selective removal, micromanagement, etc.), but so much less severe.

 

My suggestion is DON'T let this sit. You need to show all this documentation (including that letter you tore up) to somebody (COR or if not that, some of the more senior members of the Chartering Organization), because this SM and his buddies will harm more boys than just your own unless they are removed. This gives a black eye to all of scouting. Maybe if your son sees that the system works, he will accept the fact that the problem is not with Scouting, but with that individual. Follow this through, even if you have moved to a new troop and even if you son does stay out of scouting. Do it for the sake of others to come.

 

It also does not put good light on the Chartering Organization, so it is in their best interest to get rid of this person.

 

You mention the SM and one committee member that have it in for you. What about the other committee members? Surely, others see the same problems that you do.

[Bob White]

I'm no lawyer and i don't play one on TV, but before you go making another lawyer richer consider this. According to a law website in order for slander to be a legal matter one of the following conditions must exist.

And if its slander then youd also have to show that one of the following -

 

> Youd suffered financial loss

> Youd been accused of committing a criminal offence

> Youd been accused of having a contagious disease

> Your business, trade or professional reputation was damaged

> (If you are female) that your conduct (usually sexual) is immoral

 

From what has been written, none of these contitions exist. The Guy just doesn't like you and wrong as he may be he gets to have his opinion.

 

I would be more offended by the behaviour of the COR and the DE. The scoutmaster is clearly overstepping his authority and no one has had the backbone to tell him so. I'm not sure why the DE would even tell you about the charter threat. It accomplished nothing, except to discourage your son. At this point just about everyone has overreacted or under-reacted. The SM Should either put up or shut up. if he has evidence that you should not be in the program then he should give it to the council Scout Executive and let him investigate and act. If the COR doesn't feel you should be expelled he should have said to the SM and committee to get on with business and that you were staying put. The DE should have told the SM to either present evidence or shut up it's none of his business. Your son should not have had access to the troop records, should not have destroyed what wasn't his and should not quit because someone in another troop can't play nice.

 

Just my opinion.

Bob White

 

[ASM1]

Bob White,

As usual you bring valid points to the conversation. This matter has taken on its own life. Now that my compnay has chareted two units, my business is suffering greatly. A lot of my clients are council members who also own businesses. They are turning away until the dust settles. I consulted my attorney this morning and he said if I persue this, I have to persue it to the council level for allowing this behavior, and the CO (in which I am a member) for the same. I do not wish to bring our council into this. My wife and I are very involved with the district and council and have made very close friends with many professional members. But given that, we have tried to walk away and be done with it. This SM, & ASM keep it in the face of the district and council. I am starting to beleive that I am left with little choice but to bring the legal end to this matter as my attorney suggests. I wish it would just go away. But that does not seem likely.

 

ASM1

[red feather]

It took me several minutes to calm down before posting this. Your scoutmaster ASM1 is not a scout, not a scout leader, and as a past member of elite military, not a leader I would follow down the hall. IF he is willing to post in this forum I wish he would, and explain his behavior. Until this post SF members that I have known have always been courteous, giving, and forgiving. If there is a probem outside scouting, let it stay there. ASM1, I would like to encourage your son to stay in scouting and earn his eagle. It is one of the few awards that businesses, colleges, and the military award extra points for. If he would like to discuss this situation with someone outside of his circle, please ask him to contact me through this forums personal message option (I have two boys, one eagle and one working on it. Been is scouting for 36 years). A mind is a terrible thing to waste, so is a scout.

 

Deep breath. Whew...

 

Yis

 

after thouht, No SF has ever ignored a direct question from his peers.

[eisely]

As usual Bob White provides some comments that are on point. I am glad to hear that you have discussed this with your attorney. I mentioned slander as a possible cause of action. There are probably several other causes of action as well should it come to that. Good luck. Tell your son that scouts and scouters all over the nation are cheering for him.

[Rooster7]

ASM1,

 

After re-reading this thread, I still have numerous questions:

 

You've stated that the COR is your friend. Also, apparently you had a letter in hand from the camp director, which incriminated the SM. Why don't you go back to the camp director and get another copy of that letter? The COR already said, "you tell me what you want, and it is done". Why not take him up on that offer?

 

At one point, the COR was willing to do as you saw fit. You chose to go to another troop. Why would your lawyer or you consider suing the CO? The COR was on your side and cooperative. Given the aforementioned, suing the CO doesn't seem reasonable.

 

The SM of the old troop requested council to revoke the charter of the newly proposed troop. Your DE went on to say that he doubts very seriously that that can happen and not to worry about it. So, why are you upset with council or the DE? Did I miss something? Has the new charter been revoked?

 

The SM and the said ASM (husband of the CC) apparently vehemently dislike you for whatever reason. Regardless, what is the accusation that they are presenting to others to justify their actions (i.e., pushing you out of the old troop, denying you access to a leaders meeting, encouraging council to deny a charter for your new troop, etc.)? They must be telling folks something. Yet, in five pages of postings, I have not seen any accusation presented. Can you enlighten us?

 

Based on what I know so far, here is my advice -

 

One - Go back to the camp director. Get another copy of the said letter. Present it to the COR of your old troop and have you way.

 

Two - If the COR no longer backs you (which would be strange), then continue your pursuit to charter a new troop.

 

Three - Don't sue anyone. In all of these posts, I do not see anything that the CO has done to warrant a suit. The COR was on your side and you chose to go a different way. The DE merely advised you of the charter's status (pending). The council has not revoke any charter yet.

 

Four - If the council rejects the charter, make them give you a reason in writing. If it's libelous, then sue.

 

Five - While doing all or none of the above, put your boy in another troop now. If he's one project away from Eagle, don't let him deny himself that honor because of the turmoil created by these adults. Tell him, denying himself this honor, will probably make these guys happy (by your description of them, it sounds if they're that sick). It sounds if your son is blaming all of BSA. Ten years from now, he'll regret his decision.

 

[Mike Long]

I hate going the legal route on almost anything.

 

BUT

 

Defamation of Character is worth sueing over.

 

 

[Rooster7]

Defamation of Character is worth suing over.

 

I agree. What exactly was said, by whom, and to whom, that constitutes defamation of character? There may well be a case, but I haven't seen anything specific noted in these posts. It's obvious that these two leaders (the SM and at least one ASM) dislike ASM1's family, but what have they actually said that was defamatory?

 

[Mike Long]

Re-reading I don't see anything specific but the intent is clear.

 

It's one thing to ask someone to leave a troop over a difference of opinion/personal conflict but to then verbally abuse a minor, interfere with creating a new troop and then trying to boot them from scouting on a district and council level indicates that highly negative things were communicated about ASM1 to many other people.

 

I'm not a lawyer but if things are as communicated I don't see how ASM1's reputation isn't being attacked and trashed.