Oh My! Seeking advice on this one...

[Dan Williamson]

ASM 1 Ref: BSA Rules and Bylaws...I also did a search on the national site with no results. I was told in a side bar that I had to get them from my District Executive. She is ordering me a set. Kinda makes you wonder what's going on when something as basic as rules and bylaws are not easily obtainable by the volunteers.

[ASM1]

Dan,

Yes it is strange about the bylaws. We were effectively removed from the troop last Friday. The notice stated that our COR recommended the removal. However, I got email from the COR on Saturday stating that he had been out of town and knew nothing of this. He is investigating the issue. But the damage is done, I doubt it can be repaired. Our son said he wants nothing to do with scouting anymore. I am trying to get him turned around on that.

 

What a waste. People like these put themself up as council leaders who are for the good of the organization, yet they destroy lives to gain thier personal goals. It is the same thing in little league, but thats another topic for another forum.

 

ASM1

[FScouter]

The Troop Committee Guidebook #34505 should have most or all of the information youre looking for relative to who owns the troop and how leaders are selected. Chapter 2 is The Organization of Scouting, and Chapter 5 is Selecting and Recruiting Adult Leaders. The book is available at the scout shop, through the catalog, or through the web site. Some quotes: Your troop is owned by a chartered organization ..., Each chartered organization using the Scouting program provides a meeting place, selects a Scoutmaster, appoints a troop committee of at least three adults, and chooses a chartered organization representative. ... your troop must be operated within the organizations policies. The chartered organization must also approve all adult leaders. The chartered organization representative is your liaison to the troops operating organization.

 

The responsibility of approval (and removal) of adult leaders lies with the chartered organization and the chartered organization representative. The Scoutmaster and assistant scoutmasters are responsible for delivering a quality program to the boys. It sounds like your CO and COR are not familiar with how Scouting is structured, what their responsibilities are, and what the responsibilities of the SM are. Does your CO really want a loose cannon like this?

 

[yarrow]

It is unfortunate but true that LOTS of troops get in these kinds of spitting contests. You can build a wall of rules 100 ft high to keep you and your boy in this troop, but I have to wonder why. Doesn't sound like an environment I would want my son in. You did or didn't do something "wrong".....at this point it doesn't even matter and pushing to prove that you are wronged or to prove a point is toxic to your peace of mind. Shake the dust from your sandals and move on. Join a troop and involve your son in only the fun stuff until he and you lose the bad taste. I think the SM will destroy the troop anyway. Eagle isn't the only thing we get out of scouting. Go have some fun.

[ASM1]

The Resolution!

 

I think I stated in this thread that the COR is a close friend of mine, and that I am a member of the CO. I had a meeting with him yesterday at 1:00pm. At 10:30 am prior to that meeting I got a FedX package from the Camp Director of the summer camp we attended. In this package was a signed statement by the director concerning this SM's involvement in tampering with my son's activities during summer camp. I knew this SM had no clue about my years in Scouting and the resources I could draw upon to prove my point. I thought "I got him now!"

 

During the meeting with our COR, he said, "you tell me what you want, and it is done" I had the SM where I wanted him. I thought about it, and then tore up the signed letter before I let the COR read it and said, "I wish this troop well, we will be moving to another troop". When it came down to the facts, I could not destroy the experiences of all the boys in that troop that I have come to love. That troop will survive and that SM will destroy himself.

 

The situation is resolved, and I think all parties are now happy. I am, my son is, and my wife is.

 

Scouting survives.

 

ASM1

[Mike Long]

You're a good man, better than most.

Hats off to you and best of luck.

[rlculver415]

Amen, Mike.

 

ASM1 - You've done Scouting proud, and taught your son a life-altering lesson. Congratulations on your victory, and good luck in the new troop.

[eisely]

Good luck to you and your family in your new troop. Make sure your son is re-invigorated to finish his eagle. You showed yourself to be the larger man.

[happyhappyjoyjoy]

It seems as if you try to stay in the current troop life will not be good for you or your son. Remeber this program is for your son. Find another troop or assist in starting another troop. Enjoy the time with your kid. If your current troop is causing grief within your family, the troop you're in is not worth it.

[happyhappyjoyjoy]

They need to get a chat room for this site.

[ASM1]

Chat!?!? Ok, well here you go then. My company donated this site to the troop in question that I had problems with. Now that I was (thrown out) and this troop has refused ownership of this site, I still own it. If you would like a forum you chat in, go to http://www.bsatroop672.org and go to forums. Open Scouting Forum is now open and you can chat. If you like it, share it.

 

ASM1

[kasane]

After reading all these posts on this topic, I have yet to see what was actually done to have the ASM1 and his wife and sons removed from their troop. As a Unit Commissioner and many times a committee member the ONLY person/organization that can remove a leader is the Charter Rep/Chartered Organization. They are the ones that "hire" you and they are the ones that can "fire" you. Take a look at a leader application and see what signatures are on it. There is no signature space on it for the scoutmaster.

 

A scoutmaster cannot "fire" anyone from the troop. He can meet with the committee and Charter rep to discuss an issue related to the leadership. The charter rep and the committe chair then meet with the affected leader to discuss the matter. It is only then that a leader can be removed if the Charter rep feels it is then warranted.

 

It is apparent that the new scoutmaster feels that his authority was challenged and decided to rectify the situation as he saw it. The Committee Chair and Charter Rep had better sit down with him and explain the heirarchy to him and get him to training before other issues like this arise.

 

 

[ASM1]

What (I) did was to raise concerns over severe leadership malfunctions by our new SM at summer camp. (who I also recommended for the job) We all make mistakes and mine was to support this intellectually deprived primate as a "Leader of Boys".

 

My concerns were made in a private email to our CC. She responded that we would all have to meet privately and discuss these issues. I thought that would be a good idea.

 

The next day this deprived primate SM called my son on the phone and verbally assaulted him. Telling him that every boy in the troop hates him and wants him to leave the troop. All of which is a lie because my son grew up with most of these boys in little league and school, and they are still at my house playing PS2 evryday. Does not look like hate to me!!

 

The email I sent to our CC was read by her husband, an ASM of the troop, as I am/was. This ASM is also our Roundtable Commissioner and has the mistaken impression that HIS word will be law in this troop. The self appointed savour of the troop, (the CC's husband) then announced that my family was removed from the troop because he is in the "Ole Boy Network" with our new SM. (they are BUDS)

 

So you see, what (I) did was nothing wrong. It was proper and I followed the proper chain of command by going to our CC. The two morons who designated themselves "Lord & Masters" of BSA policy as they see it decided that we were too smart to be controlled and must be thrown from the flock as to not spread intellegence throughout the remaining sheap.

 

I annouced earlier in this thread that I had the goods on this SM and I threw it all away to move to another troop. That has not worked. This ASM moron is now planning a district activities meeting(in which I am a member) to decide to allow our family to remain in the scouting program on a council level. (in which I am also a member)The moron has annouced that this meeting will be held at his house. (in which I am not allowed to attend) And this moron ASM and SM, also think that this holds water. This holds nothing!

 

They have made unsuccessful attempts to interfere with our moving to another troop. (it has not worked, we have been invited by 7 troops to visit and join to date) This has moved to a personal level and now I have no choice but to take action. I have told them a couple years ago that I use this site and forums and I know they also monitor it, I have been involved in scouting for more than 30 years and I insist that all mediation be public and/or documented. I have invited them to respond here but they refuse. They are afraid of the public opinion.

 

There it is. You asked, and I responded in the only way I can right now with this hatred being shown by these primates. If you are asking if I or my son, or my wife are Gay? No Way! Are we Athiest? No Way!! Devoted Methodist.

 

My suggestions are to not take my word for anything. But ask them. Go to http://www.bsatroop672.org and go into the forums and ask them. They will not reply. My company donated that site and we host it. I know they are on that site every night thinking I am going to post there and say something they can "use". They are on the run, they have been exposed for what they are and they just happened to pick the wrong person to try to intimidate! ;-)

 

ASM1

[ASM1]

I really thought this was finished and done with. Several weeks have past since we were thrown out of the troop. Our DE came to the rescue and suggested my company charter our own troop. We decided it was a good idea and chartered a troop and a venture crew. Signed the papers two weeks ago. Everything was going fine and all things looked up. Now disaster has struck once again. While I was at Wood Badge training last weekend, out DE came to me and said that this person who caused all of our problems has raised a serious objection to our chartering a troop and he insists the charter be revoked. Our DE said he doubts very seriously that that can happen and not to worry about it. When I returned home I was discussing this with my wife and my son, (who was working on his Eagle project) overhead us talking and went into the new troop records and tore up his records and quit scouting. He said this is no honorable institute he wishes to be affiliated with. I am at a total loss and heartbroken. We have tried with no luck to date to change his mind. He will not even discuss it anymore. What should we do?

 

ASM1

[eisely]

It seems to me that you need legal representation at this point. You also need to get the camp director to write a new letter. The point of legal representation is not to sue the council, but to communicate with those who are slandering you and attempting to remove you from scouting altogether. This legal counsel may also find it advisable to communicate with the council about your concerns and to ensure that the council follows its own procedures in such matters.

 

Hopefully your son will settle down and resume his project.

 

One further point. I never write anything in any medium that I cannot live with seeing on the front page of the newspaper next day. That includes email. You never know how such things will be spread around. Your initial communication with the CC probably should have been face to face. Oh well, can't help that now.