What would you do?

[ScoutNut]

RememberSchiff - As the BSA PowerPoint points out, bullying is a behavior that is REPEATED. There is NOTHING in the original posters comments that even HINT that this was anything other than a one time, stupid action by a young boy.

 

The action was NOT ignored by the people around them, or powers that be. The boy WAS punished.

 

Den leaders (ALL den leaders) should absolutely make it clear that unacceptable behavior in the den will NOT be tolerated. Den discipline is a big issue for ALL dens. That is why BSA recommends the Scouts in a den, along with their den leader, create a list of Den Rules, and post them where all can see at every den meeting. BSA also recommends the use of POSITIVE reinforcement (see the PowerPoint presentation you linked), instead of punishment.

 

[evmori]

I think the "pound of flesh" comments was right on the money! This incident happened outside of Scouting! If this happens during a Scouting event or meeting, then the unit should deal with it! Otherwise, it is just information to be remembered.

 

Mom & dad should take their concerns up with the school since it happened on a school bus@

[CMPA]

I would not do anything to punish the scout. Like mentioned already a Cubmasters Minute on Scout behavior in and out of Scouting could be a good thing to do. You could say something about being Scouts in and out of uniform and that you should do your best to act scoutlike all the time.

[ManyHats]

I don't really think the DL expected the CM to "punish" Scout 1, but maybe have a chat with him. After things cooled down DL told CM it was taken care off (outside scouting). I do think CM needs to remind all of the scouts (not single out one) that their behavior reflects on the Pack and they are expected to act like scouts outside scout events.

I would have a hard time if I was in the DL shoes. I think I would have a tendency to watch Scout 1 like a hawk.

[Narraticong]

These are Cub Scouts. Meaning boys under 10 years old in most cases. We really don't know all the circumstances, either, do we. "Scout 1 threw Scout 2 on the floor of the school bus" is all we know. Seems like everyone assumes this was done with malice. It's been a long time since I was that age, but I seem to remember a lot of "roughhousing" (a term I do remember from my Scout days!) going on.

 

Boys at this age are really finding their way through life. They do things they shouldn't. They hurt each other. They get into fights. Like it or not, it's all part of growing up.

 

Today we all seem to be lawsuit happy. Every perceived offense calls for a pound of flesh, plus another third pound for the attorney. Seems like the boy was punished, though I'm not sure a punishment was necessary. Maybe an "I'm sorry" would have been enough. But the parents expect more. By golly, their son got stitches, that boy has to pay! As a Scoutmaster, more than once I've found that the innocent victim isn't really so innocent.

[DYB-Mike]

Well said ScoutNut.

 

I can relate to Scouts #7 and #8. If my Tiger and Tenderfoot sons were punished through the Pack and the Troop for all their fraternal disagreements that occurred outside of scouting, they would be missing a lot inside of scouting!

 

YIS

Mike

 

[ManyHats]

Scout 1 said F U to Scout 2 before throwing him on the floor. Maybe Scout 2 provoked him and the witnesses didn't hear that part. Regardless the kid had to have staples not just stiches. The size difference between the 2 scouts would be equal to at least 2 grades. This goes beyond ruffhousing and boys will be boys in my opinion.

[Nike]

If you have two dens of that age, maybe split the boys up. If the injured Scout's parents are still upset, you may have to face losing one or two fmailies.

[John-in-KC]

I love it when we get information one tidbit at a time, seemingly as though we pulled teeth.

 

Let me be blunt: This happened in the context of SCHOOL. If there is reporting to be done, or administrative punishment to be given, it's the SCHOOL's responsibility.

 

Now, what the parents do? Hopefully get together as mature and responsible folk and see if there's common ground. They're the ones who deal with their own children. Family punishment is a family responsibility.

 

What can Den Leaders and the Pack CM do? Emphasize Point 2 (A Cub Scout helps the Pack GO!), by some quiet and mature talk about when and where to roughhouse/fight (Point 3 is the Pack helps the Cub Scout GROW!) within the Law of the Pack.

 

Then it's done, unless and untill something happens inside the Scouting context. Period.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[evmori]

Well if Scout 1 said FU then pushed Scout 2 to the floor of the bus I would bet Scout 2 said something or gestured something that provoked Scout 1. Regardless, this is not a Scouting issue!

[ManyHats]

The only thing the CM plans to do is to have a general talk to the pack about acting like scouts outside of scout events.

[Narraticong]

Well, actually, Scout 2 had fathered a child by the girlfriend of Scout 1 even though he was her cousin twice removed. Two years ago in preschool Scout 1 had run over Scout 2 with a Bigwhell and Scout 2 still bears all three plastic tire tracks. The girlfriend of Scout 1 was riding on the back (illegally without a helmet) of the Bigwheel at the time. All families involved are embroiled in multi-million dollar litigation amongst themselves and all have sued Tiny Tots Daycare.

 

I think that's all the other facts you need for now...

 

Geez oh pete...where does this story end?

 

When I was a Cub, FU probably stood for "Funny Underwear".

[John-in-KC]

The only thing the CM plans to do is to have a general talk to the pack about acting like scouts outside of scout events.

 

Sounds like: "What can Den Leaders and the Pack CM do? Emphasize Point 2 (A Cub Scout helps the Pack GO!), by some quiet and mature talk about when and where to roughhouse/fight (Point 3 is the Pack helps the Cub Scout GROW!) within the Law of the Pack."

 

Seems to me the CM is on the commonsense glidepath here.

 

OK!!!! Who wants ICE CREAM???!!!???"

 

 

 

 

[hotdesk]

First, I strongly disagree that there is nothing a Unit Leader can do is this type of situation.

 

Each rank has a requirement: "Demonstrate scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life.".

 

It doesn't seem that these scouts were living the Scout Oath and Law in their everyday life. Therefore a Unit Leader has the OBLIGATION to at least have a conversation with the scouts. He needs to find out what happend, discuss appropriate ways of handling emotions, and let me know that he is very disappointed.

 

As a Committee Chairman I had an incident a few months back where a few Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts in the units I served harassed a younger Cub Scout at school. It was to that point that it could have been construed as sexual harrasment. One of the scouts involved was our Senior Patrol Leader. I had a conversation, along with our Unit Leader, with each scout individually. At the end of the conversation I had each of our Boy Scouts write an essay about the points of the scout law that were broken and how they will remember it the next time a similar situation occurs.

[Lisabob]

Each rank has a requirement: "Demonstrate scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life.".

 

 

Hotdesk, that is only true for BOY scouts. In this situation we are talking about two CUB scouts.

 

I do think there may be some issue of whether the victimized cub feels safe/comfortable attending den and pack meetings with the boy who threw him to the ground. Some quiet conversation with that boy's family to make sure all is in order within the den, along with a good CM moment about behavior in general, are certainly in order.

 

But beyond that, let the school and the parents handle the actual punishment part unless things boil over further in a pack setting.