What would you do?

[ManyHats]

Scout 1 threw scout 2 on the floor of the school bus. Scout 2 had to get stiches in his head. School gave scout 1 a demerit, which just means he can't go to the good student activity. Parents took it as a slap on the wrist and wanted more to be done. They asked the CM if he would do anything. What would you do? It wasn't at a scout event, but obviously wasn't scout like behavior.

[Bayou Beaver]

The CM has no jurisdiction.

Tell the parents to press criminal charges.

[pixiewife]

When I was first reading your post, I thought that you were going to say " What should we as a pack do?" And I would have said if didn't happen during Scouting, then nothing. However, if the Mom is asking the CM for help, then that tells me that she knows that Scouting/the respect of the CM means something to her son. I understand this, as a usual refrain in my house is " Would you do that in front of/ say that in front of Scoutmaster K?" my Boyscout always embarassingly answers 'no'. I know that invoking the name of Scoutmaster K means something to my Scout, as he has a tremendous amount of respect for him.

All that being said, I would think that just a little talk with the Cub, from the CM about behavior and how Scouting and your reputation carries over in life, might be warrented. It sounds like this Mom feels like it would carry a lot more weight. As far as giving him other punishments from Scout activities due to this behavior, that is up to her, she is the mother and can "ground" him from anything she likes. That is not the packs' responsibility. If that is what she is looking for, then she is trying to punish her kid with out being the bad guy, and I would not play into it.

 

~Pixie

[ManyHats]

Scout 2's parents approached the CM not the scout's parents that got in trouble. Scout 2's dad is a DL for both scouts. The awards banquet is tonight. I'm sure it will be tense.

[artjrk]

As previously stated the CM has no "jurisdiction" here.

 

He could have a private conversation with the two boys discussing how scouts should support each other at all times, and not just at scout activities. He could also use the situation as a nameless example for all scouts of improper scout behavior.

[RememberSchiff]

We are not scouts part-time. We expect the Scout Oath and Law to be followed always. A scout acts like a scout whether in uniform or not, whether at a scout activity or elsewhere. No scout is a bully.

 

Assuming Scout 2 is an innocent in this, then Scout 1 did not follow the Scout Oath and Law and caused an injury to another. Scouts help others not hurt others. CM and DL has this talk with Scout 1 and his parents.

 

Scout 1 sits out the next scout activity to reconsider his actions, so he misses award banquet. At next scout activity, he apologizes to Scout 2.

 

A few years ago, I had a similar incident. Scout 1 sucker punched Scout 2 (my son) during a game of capture the flag. That was a rough month, now they play baseball together.

 

There are consequences for our actions.

 

My $0.02

 

[pixiewife]

Many Hats~

Thanks for the clarification, that is a totally different story. I agree with artjrk, I would think that the CM could give a short speech about behavior to the kids at large, at the awards banquet tonight, but other than that, it is out of your hands. Yes these boys are both Scouts, so there is an impact there, but the action did not take place during Scouts, so there is no way that you can punish the child. Heck, the SCHOOL, where the action DID take place, didn't seem to do much about it!!! If the injured parents are not happy with the offending childs punishment, they need to take that up with the school, or the offending childs parents!

In short~ this can be a learning experience for all of the scouts on appropriate behavior, but not a punishing experience for the offending Scout, since the action did not happen in Scouts.

~Pixie

[evmori]

If this didn't happen at a Scouting event or in transit to a Scouting event, do nothing except make a mental note of the incident. And as Schiff posted, did Scout 1 do something to provoke Scout 2 to throw him & cause the injury? And is Scout 1 significantly larger & stronger than Scout 2 to actually "throw" him?

[ManyHats]

Witnesses confirm Scout 2's story that he didn't do anything.

Scout 2 is very small for his age, so there's no doubt Scout 1 could physically pick him up.

[SctDad]

My opinion

 

Cubmasters Minute about respecting others, and about living the Cub Scout Promise and Law of the Pack at all times. Make a mental note and watch for possible future problems.

 

If the parents both agree that they would like you to have a more personal talk with both of the boys (following YP of course) then you can say that you will do it from a Cubmasters point of view.

 

Other than that there is not much you can do.

[ScoutNut]

"Parents took it as a slap on the wrist and wanted more to be done. They asked the CM if he would do anything. What would you do?"

 

 

I would remind Parents #2 that neither BSA, the Pack, or the CM are part of the police system. As CM it is not within your ability to "punish" kids, or to increase a punishment levied by another. BSA very specifically states in it's YP that punishment is the arena of the parents. This is especially true when the incident was outside of Scouting.

 

However, I would let them know that the CM will be doing a talk at the awards ceremony reminding all of the boys, and families, about what being a Scout means, and what the Cub Scout Promise, Law, and Motto mean in the real world.

 

I would then suggest that if they wish to pursue any other actions they speak to Parents #1, and/or the school.

 

 

 

 

[evmori]

BSA very specifically states in it's YP that punishment is the arena of the parents. This is especially true when the incident was outside of Scouting.

 

Outside of Scouting, BSA YP holds no water.

[Eamonn]

I'm a little worried that these parents are looking at the Pack to get what might be their pound of flesh!

If they are unhappy with what the school failed to do they need to talk with the school.

The role of the Cubmaster and youth leaders is to provide the program.

Matters of discipline should be managed by the Pack Management Committee.

I really don't think I know of many Pack Management Committees who would be willing to take this on.

 

I'm in total agreement that Scouts should try their best to live up to the promise, oath, law 24/7.

I can see bringing this message to everyones attention.

 

3 years back I ran a red light, I thought I'd make it but I didn't.

I paid the fine.

End of story.

Do we really think that the BSA should have got involved?

The school has dealt with this situation as they thought was best/

End of story.

Eamonn.

[RememberSchiff]

We have a known bully threat in our unit (both scouts are in the same den!). Safety is Job One. As leaders and character role models, we don't take a 'wait and see if it happens again' position and if it does happen, hope it happens outside of scouting.

 

We act to make our unit safe and stop any future bullying now.

 

Scout 2 should feel safe, Scout 1 should be turned away from an unscout-like path, the other Scouts should see that bullying will not be tolerated, and the DL (Scout 2's Dad) needs to know that the pack cares about his son's safety. I think that pound of flesh comment was ill-considered; walk in the DL's shoes and its your son with the stitches.

 

Refer to "Bullying: Prevention and Intervention Tips for Scout Leaders and Parents"

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/ppt/BULLYINGPREVENTION.ppt

 

Another $0.02

 

 

 

 

 

[ScoutNut]

OK, the Pack hands out punishment for an incident that happened on a school bus based on a parent not feeling that the child was punished enough by the school, or his parents.

 

Where do you draw the line? Once the Pack gets into the business of being the community police force what infractions are to small for them to get involved? Are any to small?

 

What happens when scout #3 gets into a shouting match with scout #4 when playing in the park? Parent #4 demands the Pack punishes scout #3 because Parent #3 only made their son come in early.

 

What about if scout #5, while teasing the girl next door, breaks one of her toys? Parent #5 makes scout #5 apologize. The girl's parents, knowing the boy is a Cub Scout, demands the Pack make scout #5 buy the girl a new toy.

 

Scout #6 hits a ball thru a neighbors window. Parent #6 pays for window. Neighbor, knowing boy is a Cub Scout, demands the boy be punished by the CM.

 

Scout #7 hits his brother, scout #8 while fighting in their bedroom. Parents #7/8, even though they have already disciplined their sons, want the Pack to punish the boys some more.

 

Scouts #9 & #10 are belching at each other in their Grandma's front room. Grandma is offended because this is rude, unscoutlike behavior and wants the Pack to make an example of them.

 

Silly? You bet! But, once you open the door, where does it end?

 

 

The incident happened on school property. The school handed out punishment. The parents most likely handed out their own punishment. The ONLY way the Pack should get involved is a general talk to everyone about what it is they are promising to do when they say the Promise & Law. And this should include Den Leader Parent #2, who could very well take out his anger on scout #1.

 

BOTH boys deserve to feel safe at their den meeting. If Parent #2 feels more should be done there are other avenues, OUTSIDE of Scouting, that are more appropriate for that to happen.