Cubs camping at Camp-o-ree

[CNYScouter]

An issue has come up in the District about Cub Scouts attending and camping at the District Camp-o-ree.

 

We have some Cub Scouters upset when they were told they shouldnt be attending the camp-o-ree much lees camping overnight.

One is even insisting that cubs can camp at a camp-o-ree in the G2SS as long as they have a separate tenting area and separate events.

 

In looking at the G2SS Cubs (Tiger, Wolf Bears), even attending a Camp-o-ree as a Day event, isnt allowed.

WEBELOS I see are allowed as Day Visitors only.

 

In looking at Cub Scout Overnight Opportunities, outside of an accredited resident camp, the only other types of camping allowed are council-organized family camps (where everything is provided by the council) and Pack overnighters.

 

From what our DE has said our council allows Cubs at Camp-o-ree even camping over night.

 

Can a council wave these guidelines in the G2SS and basically make up their own ?

 

[dg98adams]

I think it depends on what your definition of "Camp-o-ree" is, as it's not mentioned in the "Cub Scout Over-nighters" section of the Online G2SS and where your "Camp-o-ree" is.

 

If the council is approving their overnight camping tour permit, and they have a BALOO trained adult, they are following the adult-cub ratio, and they are not directly participating in Boy Scout activities....I would think they are ok.

 

 

http://www.usscouts.org/safety/g2ss.asp

 

Cub Scout Overnight Opportunities

 

Cub Scouts may experience overnight activities in venues other than accredited resident camping. There are two categories of Cub Scout over-nighters:

 

Council-Organized Family Camp

 

Council-organized family camps are overnight events involving more than one pack. The local council provides all of the elements of the outdoor experience, such as staffing, food service, housing, and program. These are often referred to as Parent/Pal or Adventure weekends. Council-organized family camps should be conducted by trained leaders at sites approved by the local council. In most cases, the youth member will be under the supervision of a parent or guardian. In all cases, each youth participant is responsible to a specific adult.

 

Overnight activities involving more than one pack must be approved by the council. Council-organized family camps must be conducted in accordance with established standards as given in National Standards for Council-Organized Family Camping, No. 13-408.

Pack Overnighters

 

These are pack-organized overnight events involving more than one family from a single pack, focused on age-appropriate Cub Scout activities and conducted at council-approved locations (councils use Pack Overnighter Site Approval Form, No. 13-508). If nonmembers (siblings) participate, the event must be structured accordingly to accommodate them. BSA health and safety and youth protection guidelines apply. In most cases, each youth member will be under the supervision of a parent or guardian. In all cases, each youth participant is responsible to a specific adult.

 

At least one adult on a pack overnighter must have completed Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation (BALOO, No. 34162) to properly understand the importance of program intent, youth protection guidelines, health and safety, site selection, age-appropriate activities, and sufficient adult participation. Permits for campouts shall be issued locally. Packs use Local Tour Permit Application, No. 34426.(This message has been edited by dg98adams)

[ScoutNut]

Cubs (especially Tiger/Wolf/Bear Cubs) should not be camping with Boy Scouts and participating in Boy Scout activities.

 

Age appropriate activities.

 

However, some councils/districts like to combine events. If they are holding a Cub Scout Cub-o-ree, and possibly a Webelos-ree, at the same time, and at the same council camp, but in another area, with separate camping and Cub Scout age appropriate activities, I see no problem.

 

A visit to the Boy Scout Camp-o-ree as a part of the days activity should be limited to Webelos only.

 

[PACK15NISSAN]

Our Council allowed our Webelos to attend (particpate and camp) the Council Camp-o-ree last year. In the past they have said that it helps prepare them for the patrol method.

 

This year however, they have said no Webelos (neither camping or participating). They didn't give me a reason, so we registered our boys anyway and are planning on attending. If they "catch us" then I will ask again for a reason. To me it is crazy to say yes one year and no the next but we seem to think it has something to do with the fact that last year they only had 2 Webelos Patrols (our Pack and one other) and our Pack won the whole thing. I think they may want to save face by just eliminating us all together.

 

Whatever the reason I guess the Council has full say in the matter since they are running it. I don't know if the G2SS is any reason to say no Webelos (especially if they have allowed it in the past) because isn't the G2SS a guideline and not a set of rules?

[CNYScouter]

I am asking this as I will be staffing a WLOT course in a couple of weeks.

I was given a list of people attending and one of the Cub Leaders who is upset will be there and I am sure this question will be raised.

 

In reading the G2SS it is my take that any Cub overnighter involving more than one Pack would be considered a Council-organized family camp and need to follow the guidelines as such.

 

A camp-o-ree would fall under this description

 

Council-organized family camps must be conducted in accordance with established standards as given in National Standards for Council-Organized Family Camping, No. 13-408

 

How does one get a copy of the National Standards for Council-Organized Family Camping, No. 13-408 as it is not listed on www.Scoutstuff.org?

 

 

 

 

 

[ScoutNut]

Attend National Camp School.

 

Or talk to your District/Council Cub Scout Resident or Day Camp Director.

 

Webelos Outdoor is not the place to be leading a discussion on your Council's camping policies. The training is only so long, and you are obligated to stick to the syllabus so that everything can be covered in the alloted time.

 

If this person complains about Council policies, refer him to the Council Camping Chair, and move on.

[John-in-KC]

1) National Standards for Council-Organized Family Camping, No. 13-408: If you really want this, then contact your DE, or the Professional/Ranger in charge of your Scout Reservation. National is migrating bin items (such as this) to pdfs online. Your professionals have access to that filestore.

 

2) I've been involved in my Council's Cub Family Resident Camp programs. We call it Bear Camp. We run it 6 weeks every summer, 2 sessions in a 4 day weekend cycle. A Council Organized Family Camp is SCOUT CAMP. It's a residential experience at your Scout Reservation. It's something that gets a NCS qualified inspection team.

 

3) Better resources to ask for, for Cub Camping, are:

Resident Camping for Cub Scouting, No. 13-33814

Cub Scout Outdoor Program Guidelines, No. 13-631

 

4) If you look at the Age-Appropriate Guidelines appendix to G2SS, NO TIGER, WOLF, OR BEAR Youth program member is to be at a Camporee. Webelos are authorized VISIT ONLY. Camporees are Boy Scout Program Events

 

5) The flow for questions on this is to the District Camping Committee, thence to the Council Camping Committee. They are the ones who give local guidance on how to make things happen.

 

6) If you think you won't like to hear the answer, don't ask the question.

 

7) Is the concept of Cubs not being at a District Camporee right? Dunno. Don't think so, personally. That's not the important question... which is, what's the policy...

[scoutldr]

Would you show up with your Troop at the Pinewood Derby and expect to be allowed to participate? Same thing. Camping in cub scouts is "family camping" only.

[MomToEli]

Webelos (1 & 2, as there is no distinction published anywhere) are being allowed at our Spring Camporee but they are *required* to have an parent or adult guardian with them, just as with Webelos overnight camping.

[Herms]

I have to concur with most everyone else. Tigers/Wolves/Bears day visits. Webelos bring them camping! Can't think of a better recruitment tool!

[SSScout]

In our neck of the woods, a Camporee is a Scout activity, laid out with Patrol events. There are no stand arounds, you camp, you participate. Cubs and Webelos may visit, with parent accompaniment, but that is very rare. Webelos Weekend is the other thing. Webelos are invited to the Webelos Weekend by Scout Troops that organize and run "stations" for the Webs to participate in. Webs come as guests of a particular Troop. If a Cub Pack Web Den wants to come, and they don't have a host Troop, they are assigned one. Instant recruitment!

 

[evmori]

National put the kibosh on WEBELOS attending Camp-o-rees with Boy Scout troops. Now they are allowed to attend but only as a day trip. This use to be a great recruiting tool by having the WEBELOS spend the weekend with a Boy Scout unit. But, alas, it is not anymore!