Parental involvement

[palopinto]

I have been the CC of a pack for two years now. The current leadership is great but, the pack has grown to 60 plus scouts and we have a real lack of parents willing to step up to be leaders. We actually have one den with 19 kids registered in it. Most of the time only 12 to 15 show up for meetings but there is only one DL and an Asst. DL. Luckly for that den , my son is in it, so I am there, the CM and Asst. CM also have sons in that den. We would like to see the den divide into two or three but there is no other parent that will take it up. We have the same problem with a fairly large Webelos den, and tiger den.

We have asked over and over. We have asked select parents to help out with pack events with limited success, however no one will step into a leadership role. We face a serious problem with leadership next year. The current Bear DL is not sure he wants to be a DL next year and we have doubts the current tiger leader will continue being a DL. This with probably needing a new treasurer, CO rep, and possibly others due to different reasons, but burn out among the DL's is a great concern. Any ideas?

[gcnphkr]

Rarely will you get someone if you say, "We need someone to do this". You are more likely to get someone when you say to Mrs. Brown, "I need to to be the Den Leader for the Webelos Den starting in June. This is what you will need to do and I and the CM will be there to help you get started. Will you do it?" Do not say anything after that until they say, "yes" or, "no". You can answer a few questions, but make them short and to the point then go back to waiting. In things like this the first to speak loses.

 

After everyone who should do it says, "No", you call a meeting of the parents. You tell them, "We have to have a Den Leader for this den. I've asked you all to do it but no one was willing. I'm going to leave for 15 minutes. When I come back I need to know that either you've decided to not have this den at all and that your sons will be leaving our pack, or you will have worked out who the DL and ADL will be next year. Thank you." Hopefully you all have adults who will step up, otherwise, close the den down, suggest other packs that the can join and relax. As much as you like you cannot do it without parents who are willing to do their part and it is not worth the aggravation.

 

As for your Webelos Den, have the ADL step up to be a DL and you go with one den to help and the CM go with the other. You have 5 leaders, split it up if you are all going to be there anyway.(This message has been edited by jet526)

[Eagle92]

Anotehr trick to recruiting parents is to have several folks approach them simultaneously. Two to three leaders, especially the ones most active with the son and/or knows the family best,i.e. works with parents, goes to church with parents, etc. Rarely will someone say no using this approach. They usually are the ones who have used this approach on others Good luck.

[SctDad]

I am looking at having this same issue this fall when we do our fall round up. I can see there being a possible problem with getting a den leader for the tigers. I have a den leader for the Wolf den that is currently tifers (they are basically down to 4) and I will be working as DL for the Bear Den along with being CM. But I find it fun and enjoyable. I also will probably have an ADL For the Bear Den Next Year. So that will make things a little easier.

 

My CC is currently doing the Webelos DL position and things are going pretty decent there. I only have 4 W1 at this time, but next year I will have 4 W2 and 2 W1. That is if they all stay. Not counting any that I have join up.

 

Good luck to you and I hope that you are successful in your venture to obtain leaders.

 

Eagle92

 

If you are still looking for a Pack, I could use a DL that has a lot of Exp. Yeah, I know it is a small commute, but we would always be willing to take the help.

[Eamonn]

Hi palopinto and Welcome.

 

jet526,

I hate to be disagreeable, but if what you suggest ever becomes the way that we select the people we trust to look after and care for our children? I hope that we cease to exist! I can't think of a worse way of going about it.

 

palopinto,

The good thing is that you know that there is a problem.

The bad thing was that a Den of 19 was ever allowed to form.

This can not be good for the Scouts in the Den.

In the short term I think I would see if there is any way that the ACM could take over half of the Den (A Pack doesn't need a ACM on the charter.)

You might want to contact the District Membership Committee and see if they can help? While they don't have a list of people chomping at the bit, waiting to be asked to become leaders, they should be able to help set you up with the correct way of selecting quality leaders.

You might want to take a look at:

http://old.scouting.org/commissioners/resources/13-500.pdf

 

Your Unit Commissioner or District Commissioner should also be able to help.

I think once the District becomes aware that a Pack of 60 is soon going to be a Pack of only 40? They will step into high gear!

Eamonn.

 

 

 

 

[gcnphkr]

Eamonn,

 

Which part do you disagree with? Asking the individual parents who should be doing it to do their part? Expecting the parents who should be doing it to come up with a solution? Being realistic that if none of the parents who should be doing it care enough to do their part that there is not reason to have the den in the first place? This doesn't seem to be the case where there is no one qualified to lead but were those who are qualified are unwilling to lead. It can be very easy for parents to hope that someone else will step up and take on the responsiblity, but at some point they need to understand that they need to do it.

[Eamonn]

 

 

"Which part do you disagree with? Asking the individual parents who should be doing it to do their part?

This wasn't what you posted!

You posted:

" you call a meeting of the parents. You tell them, "We have to have a Den Leader for this den. I've asked you all to do it but no one was willing. I'm going to leave for 15 minutes. When I come back I need to know that either you've decided to not have this den at all and that your sons will be leaving our pack, or you will have worked out who the DL and ADL will be next year. Thank you."

 

I don't see this as "Asking the individual parents"

I see it as some kind of a press-gang! Do you really expect people who have been recruited this way to do a good job?

Is this any way to go about selecting quality leaders?

I for one am not sure that I'd want someone who was brought in using these strong armed tactics to look after my child.

 

"Expecting the parents who should be doing it to come up with a solution?"

I must have missed out on something, somewhere?

Where is it laid down that parents should come up with a solution?

Surely this is the job of he Pack Management Committee?

 

" Being realistic that if none of the parents who should be doing it care enough to do their part that there is not reason to have the den in the first place?"

Who ever said that they should be doing it?

What do we know about these parents?

How many are single parents?

Worse still how many might have reasons for not being able or allowed to work with children?

How many work shift work?

Truth is that we don't know.

HWMBO is a nice person, but she knows that she isn't cut out to work with other peoples children. In fact she has said that if she had to that a few of them would never make home after a Den meeting!

Do you really want to press gang her into being a leader?

 

"This doesn't seem to be the case where there is no one qualified to lead but were those who are qualified are unwilling to lead. It can be very easy for parents to hope that someone else will step up and take on the responsibility, but at some point they need to understand that they need to do it."

 

I kinda got a little lost on this part!

But once again you are assuming that they are unwilling.

The idea that any-one with a warm body is capable and able to look after our children is just wrong.

We do better when we don't just recruit people to fill spots but take the time to select the right person for the spot.

 

Some years back, after a School Sign-up. A parent had offered to sign up as a Den Leader. I was given the application form. (I was the CM)

I mentioned this to HWMBO.

She said that she thought that I'd better check this Lady out.

I may not be the sharpest pencil in the box? But I kinda knew that she knew something that she couldn't tell me. (God Bless HIPPA! -HWMBO works in the local ER.)

I called the Pack Committee Chairperson, explained that I had this application, but felt a little uneasy about it. She said that she would look into it, I faxed her the application.

Within the hour she called me back, saying that she had made a few phone calls.(We live in a small town) Most of the people she had talked with said that this Lady was a nut! A couple had said that she was OK as long as he was on her meds!!

I'm not sure I'd want to be a parent left in a room for 15 minutes with her? Let alone have her take care of my child.

Eamonn.

 

[gcnphkr]

Eamonn,

 

Did you miss my first paragraph? "...you say to Mrs. Brown, 'I need to to be the Den Leader for the Webelos Den starting in June. This is what you will need to do and I and the CM will be there to help you get started. Will you do it?'" That is asking a specific person to do a specific task, I assume that palopinto is capable of asking someone that is qualified.

 

It is only "after everyone who should do it says, 'No'", that you call the meeting. You've exhausted all your possible resources. All you have left are the parents. Yes, it is a press gang. No, it is not ideal. But at some point the parents have to take ownership of this. The CC/CM/UC/DC/DE cannot make this work if there is no one willing to be the Den Leader. Unless your CO is the LDS or some other group willing to tell a member that their "calling" is to be the Den Leader then it will likely need to be one of the parents.

[Lisabob]

My experience with press ganging is pretty much exactly as Eamonn describes. Both in scout units and in other volunteer situations, it often happens that a person who is not well-suited to the job ends up with it in those circumstances, and then the problem becomes "managing" them until their time is up/they decide to leave (they never seem to fade away gracefully and quickly), or worse yet, figuring out how to get rid of them and replace them with someone else. Many potentially good members/leaders/volunteers/parents will have been driven away by that person's poor performance, in the meantime. Of those who stay, they will be twice as unlikely to succumb to that style of leadership selection as before.

 

Regarding the parent described in the original post - if he really had no particular role as some sort of leader with the pack and he just showed up (without his kid), I think I'd guide him toward the CC or CM for a quiet little conversation. If it is the case that is just a little over-enthused about being involved (again? perhaps he was a scout as a youth?), then hand him an adult app and tap into his enthusiasm.

 

On the other hand if he's creepy and weird, then the CC/CM can set some boundaries for him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rjscout]

The face-to-face conversation is important, but the words are a bit harsh. I was very eager to jump in when asked to help, but if someone told me

"I need you to be the Den Leader for the Webelos Den starting in June. This is what you will need to do and I and the CM will be there to help you get started. Will you do it?" I think I would have said 'NO'. Convincing someone to do it is one thing, but PUSHING them is not a good way, IMHO.

 

I don't have the answer, but hopefully I can learn more before my Pack runs into this situation.

 

[Nike]

If you need new den leaders, give them fair warning that as of June, the den leader will not be able to carry on. If no one has stepped up by June, that's when the CC and CM can come in and say, "Look, we need x numbers of den leaders. If you want to do it, or you know someone not in the pack who might be a good fit, give us a call or an e-mail. This is what we will do to help you. You won't be alone. But, if we don't have anyone in place by September, we can't let this den go on."

 

You don't have to be mean about it, but put the truth out there.

[palopinto]

Wow, sorry I created so much controversy. Good to see (not really good) that others suffer with the same problems.

Jet, I liked what you said. I think in many instances the parents need a wake up call. There are no free lunches, so to speak. I think part of my problem is frustration with the parents sitting back and watching the committee put on a great scouting program for the kids and not getting involved.

I also agree with eamonn, some tact is needed, but when it comes down to it, we live and die on parental involvment. If the "right" person cant be found then we have to work with what we have or start cutting out the dead wood. Sounds harsh, not what is best for the pack, but something has to give. Sounds like there are no easy answers.

As far as our DE, he is pretty green. Our 3rd DE in a year and a half. I found out he is streched thin with many programs to oversee. This just isnt going to a simple conversation with a couple of parents.

Thanks so much for responding. Good luck to all of you.

[gcnphkr]

Yes, tact is needed. The statement was not intended to be used word for word, but a condensation of a discussion. I would be very surprised if it ever got to having a meeting with all the parents as once they understand the need a qualified person will likely accept.

[DYB-Mike]

Greetings Palopinto,

 

I too share your pain. Our Pack has lost some good leaders in the last couple of years both to cross over and loss of interest. This May we stand to loose our two Webelos den leaders and our Cubmaster. In addition to being leaders they were heavily involved in the planning and execution of Pack events.

 

Absolutely, tact is needed in approaching prospective leaders. One of my favorite sayings is you catch more flies with honey - an old clich, but Ive found it to be true. Just before I started we had one leader in our Pack make a were not Babysitters of America speech, which didnt prove to be very effective.

 

This gives me an opportunity to plug the thread I started back on March 30th, Baloo Wants You Take Two. Im experimenting with laying the groundwork before approaching prospective leaders, softening up our targets so to speak. I figure folks dont like to be put on the spot or would be naturally apprehensive about taking on a responsibility that is unknown to them. Rather than just handing out a handbook with a list of leader responsibilities, Im trying to make it more personal by providing a document to new parents, that they can read at their own leisure, in which leaders tell in their own words why they do it, how they manage scouting responsibilities with their other responsibilities, and what benefits they get out of Cub Scout leadership. This approach does not supersede the face to face conversation, but it may make folks more receptive since it gives them a feel for what they're getting into. At least, thats my theory.

 

Please check out the thread and tell your story!

 

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=233129

 

YIS,

Mike

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tonys]

I've seen this form orone like it used parents need to know at round up they must do something to help

 

CUB SCOUT PACK ADULT PARTICIPATION FORM

 

For over 75 years parents have made Cub Scouting an enriching experience for their boys. We need your help to provide the best Cub Scout program for your son. Your involvement ensures that our Pack will be a Centennial Quality Pack. By volunteering for 100 points you will aid in ensuring that your son receives a Centennial Quality Unit patch for his uniform and get a great Scouting program. Thank you for your support.

 

# POINTS POSITION DESCRIPTION

 

100 ___ DEN LEADER OR ASSISTANT attend basic training, monthly committee meeting, monthly Pack meeting and weekly den meetings. Complete adult registration form & fee.

 

100 ___ TITLED COMMITTEE PERSON - attend basic training, monthly committee meeting, monthly Pack meeting and perform titled job (i.e. treas., sec., etc.. Complete adult registration form & fee.

 

80 ___ COMMITTEE MEMBER AT LARGE attend basic training, attend at least four (4) monthly committee meetings, monthly Pack meetings and serve on at least one (1) Pack subcommittee. Complete adult registration form & fee.

 

SUBCOMMITTEE MEMBER attend specific committee meeting(s) for specific event(s). Assist in organization and task work for event. No registration or fee. Choose specific events from list below.

 

60 ___ DAY CAMP LEADER VOLUNTEER July one (1) week. Attend Day Camp training, register and supervise eight (8) boys through one (1) week of activities during the day.

 

40 ___ BLUE & GOLD BANQUET COMMITTEE January and February.

 

40 ___ PINEWOOD DERBY COMMITTEE February & March (car race)

 

40 ___ PARADE COMMITTEE Holiday parades throughout the year.

 

40 ___ POPCORN SALES COMMITTEE September through December.

 

20 ___ SCOUTING FOR FOOD COMMITTEE Fall.

 

20 ___ FOOD SERVICE Serve food or attend concessions at selected dinners.

 

20 ___ BOOTH & EXHIBITS Volunteer two (2) hours in a booth at an exhibition.

 

20 ___ SPORTING EVENTS Volunteer to organize and supervise a Pack athletic competition.

 

I PLEDGE MY SUPPORT TO CUB SCOUTING AND THIS PACK.

 

PARENT SIGNATURE _____________________________ DATE ________________

 

PHONE _______________ EMAIL __________________________________________

 

TOTAL POINTS _______ BOYS NAME _____________________________________

 

If a situation arises and you can no longer help, please contact your Den Leader or Cubmaster.