Pack Treasury Issues

[ScoutNut]

Going from -

 

>>"The pack I am talking about has not done fundraising">"This pack has not attempted any fund raising ">"they just had a ridiculously successful year in popcorn sales....

When I was talking about them not doing fund-raising, I meant outside of the normal popcorn sales.">"My point is that if a pack does attempt to do fundraisers and still cannot cover costs, I can see reason for the scouts to each pay towards advancement materials.">>

 

Since your father is on the Pack Committee, your father should be bringing the issue of finances up to the Pack Committee Chair. The Committee Chair, NOT the Cubmaster, is the person who has the job of managing the finances in a Pack.

 

It also sounds like the Pack leadership (ALL of them, including your father) need to be trained.

 

[aquaticeagle]

You are assuming that my father is doing nothing. I never said that. My father was simply asking for my opinion on the issue and I in turn was asking for other people's opinions. Anything wrong with that? My father has already voiced his opinion to the CM and the last I heard he was on his way to talk to the charter representative.

[ScoutNut]

I am assuming nothing.

 

YOU stated your father asked for YOUR opinion, and that, in turn, YOU asked for OUR opinions, nothing wrong with that at all.

 

However, there is something wrong with changing the "facts" midway thru.

 

I gave you my opinion. A Pack has to pay for things somehow. Money does not materialize out of thin air. A Pack has basically 2 ways to go about it - Dues or Fundraising, or a combo. The Pack committee, led by it's CC, decides, based on it's budget, what it will, and will not, pay for. Every Pack does this differently.

 

The CC is in charge of Pack finances, not the CM. If there is a problem with finances, or with any aspect of the running of a Pack (as opposed to the Pack program), questions should go to the CC and then the COR.

 

I am glad that your father is taking his questions to the COR (still wonder where the CC and Treasurer are). Hopefully the issue will be resolved.

 

 

 

 

[aquaticeagle]

I didn't change the facts, I clarified something. When most people (in my 20 years of experience in scouting) discuss fund-raising, they are talking about everything outside of popcorn sales because with most units (again in my 20 years of scouting experience) popcorn sales are expected.

[cubbingcarol]

Aquaticeagle, you are the one assuming now when it comes to popcorn selling being the norm for most units. We didn't do popcorn for several years. And were bullied into by our council the last couple of years. But that's a story for a different time. But I don't have 20+ years experience either so maybe that's my handicap. But for the last 6 years I have been involved with both my son's as den leader, committee member, married to the CM, on Round table staff, Activity Director at Day camp, nurse at Day camp for last several years, etc. Also serve on our Pinewood derby committee. Whew maybe I better stop, my fingers are getting tired.

 

Carol

[ScoutNut]

Sorry, but in my 17+ years of experience in Scouting as an Adult Leader, when most people discuss fundraising they INCLUDE popcorn sales, because, again, in my 17+ years of experience in Scouting as an Adult Leader, most people consider selling popcorn to BE fundraising.

 

In my 17+ years of experience in Scouting as an Adult Leader, when some one says NO, and NOT ANY, fundraising was done done it means just that - no fundraising of any kind.

 

Also, in my 17+ years of experience in Scouting as an Adult Leader, I have known of quite a few units (Pack, Troop, Crew, Ship, etc) that do NOT sell popcorn. Heck, in my 17+ years of experience in Scouting as an Adult Leader, I have even heard of COUNCILS that do NOT sell popcorn at all!

 

In my 17+ years of experience in Scouting as an Adult Leader, when a BSA unit does things that are against BSA policy, has a Committee that does not do it's job, or has "on paper only" leaders, it usually means that (in my 17+ years of experience in Scouting as an Adult Leader) either the leaders are not trained, or they are arrogant enough to think that their way is better than BSA's.

 

Did I mention that I have 17+ years of experience in Scouting as an Adult Leader?

 

[ScoutMomSD]

money is a very sensitive issue these days.

 

We have a flat annual fee and only charge extra for camping. If there is a financial need, the scout can ask for help.

 

We sell a lot of popcorn so it covers most of the costs also.

 

I have a finance/accouting background and any time money is talked about it kind of makes me cringe as some folks just glaze over when talking about it, but its a subject that can quickly become a problem if not dealt with head on.

[Eamonn]

With more and more units going with "Personal Accounts" it is very possible that a Pack could have a wonderful Pop-corn sale.

But this might be due to very few Scouts selling.

This money would go into their account and the Pack might still not have very much.

The Pack I was involved with went to these personal accounts.

One Lad was the top seller in the Council, for a number of years.

He ended up with several thousand dollars in his account. Which really didn't do much for the Pack, only him.

It's far to easy to just look at one or two things and think that something is amiss, but when you might not have all the information? You stand a very good chance of being very wrong and end up upsetting people for no good reason.

Eamonn.

[aquaticeagle]

ScoutNut, maybe you should calm down a little. That's not even the topic of this discussion. It is something that I have obviously realized is not the case with every pack, which is why I clarified it. I don't know why you're repeating your 17+ years of experience as if I've been repeating my experience over and over. Why don't we just get back to the topic that this thread is supposed to be about?

[shortridge]

aquaticeagle,

 

With regard to the subject of this thread, I think you've gotten several pretty good answers several times over. I hope you'll keep us posted as to what happens.

[evmori]

I've got 20+ years in Scouting as an adult & while I think popcorn is over priced it's sole purpose is a fundraiser. And if this unit your father is involved in has successful popcorn fundraisers, maybe it's time for your father to have an outside audit of the unit's books completed.

 

Regardless of the outcome, popcorn is a fundraiser.

[newbie]

Hello.

 

I am totally new to cub scouts and am taking on a program that had at least 25 cubs where the CM left and the whole thing fell apart because 2 adults on the committee could not get along. Everyone left and I am picking up the pieces.

 

I am now trying to get the checkbook from the old COR. I have asked her to go to the bank and transfer signatures at least 3 times after the Charter org. IH made me official. She hung up the phone on me.

 

I have since called the church letting them know that the bank account may be emptied by this person. Still trying to get records and funds.

[Basementdweller]

Not much you can do the charter org owns all of the Pack property including bank accounts.

[ScoutNut]

This is why you have more than one name attached to a unit bank account.

 

The Charter Organization's IH should go to the the bank and shut down the account as soon as possible.

 

By the way, since you are the new Cubmaster, why is it that you are trying to get the checkbook? That should be the Treasurer's job, or if there is no Tresurer, the Committee Chair. Where is the CC, or the new COR?

[Lisabob]

Without having more information on the pack's finances, there is really no way you can make an adequate evaluation of their decision to charge an entry fee for the PWD or to ask parents to pay for awards. As others have pointed out, you don't appear to know how their fundraising structure is organized (personal accounts?) or what that money has been used for (dues? books? debt to council for a mess-up in popcorn ordering in a previous year? etc.) As an outsider you also aren't privy to the viewpoint of the parents of boys currently in the unit, other than your father. And from your limited description I'm guessing that maybe your dad is fairly new to the unit too (or he wouldn't be surprised by the way the pack's funding operates). One thing is sure though - if a person approaches the situation assuming the worst about other people's motives, the discussion is unlikely to be productive or illuminating. Something to consider, aquaticeagle.

 

Newbie - you may want to consider starting a new thread as you'll get more input on your situation that way. My basic take on it is that while ScoutNut is right (this should be the treasurer's job), often units in distress like what you describe only have one or two functioning leaders and the notion of saying "that's not my job," while technically correct, is sometimes an unaffordable luxury in the immediate aftermath of a leadership melt down. If I were in your shoes, based on the limited info you've provided, I think I'd show up in the Institutional Head's office. A phone call or email apparently isn't going to communicate the urgency of the situation; a personal visit may do better there.