Pack Treasury Issues

[aquaticeagle]

I have recently learned of a Cubmaster that has charged a $5 entry fee to her own scouts to enter the Pine Wood Derby. I've never heard of this and it sounds very wrong any opinions?

 

I also just found out that she is charging each scout for their own advancement and award materials whenever they earn something. Opinions?

[hotdesk]

Is there an active Committee for your Cub Scout Pack? If so then I would take this issue to that Committee.

 

Your unit should be charging dues and conducting fundraisers that will cover the costs of your scouting program INCLUDING the Pinewood Derby and Advancement Materials.

 

One of the things that I would be careful about is nickle and diming these families to death. I would be even more so concerned during this economy.

 

Perhaps a conversation with your Committee Chairman and/or Cubmaster about fundraising and dues should be the next step?

[Eamonn]

How a Unit goes about funding what it does (The Program) is very much up to the Pack.

We all are very much aware that the money has to come from some-where.

Some Packs are happy with everyone doing their best to raise what funds they can and having all this money put together in a Pack fund and used as needed.

Other Packs have individual Cub Scout Accounts, with the Pack funds held in the name of each Cub Scout and as the money is needed for things like Pine-Wood cars and expenses each account is debited by that amount.

Back when I was a CM.

At the Annual Pack Planning Meeting I presented a budget to the Pack Committee.

We as a group decided on what the Pack would pay for. (And what we wouldn't!)

Some things were just taken for granted.

We knew from the get go that we needed the recharter fee and insurance fee.

Some things were up for debate.

Should we include Day Camp as a Pack Activity? (We did!)

By the end of he Planning Meeting we came up with a number. At that time it was about $120.00) Each family was asked to come up with that amount.

Some families didn't want to participate in Pack Fund Raising Events and were happy to just write a check for that amount. Some paid some of that amount and raised the rest, while some were happy to raise the full amount.

Money raised above the amount went into a personal account and was used for things like Resident Camp.

This worked for us.

OJ belonged to a Troop where everything was done on a personal basis.

If he "Worked" a fund raiser he was credited with that amount. If he earned a Patch his account was debited, when the Troop bought a new tent the cost was divided by the number of Scouts in the Troop.

This was what the Troop Committee came up with and it worked for them.

Different units have come up with a lot of different ways of getting things done.

All are worth looking at and at the end of the day each committee does what they thinks works best for the families they serve.

Eamonn.

 

[mkarlinm]

hi. In out pack we seem to nickle and dime everyone and I hate it. Put it is the only way we can exsist and contuine having activies. As the cubmaster it is hard to say ok you need to pay for this...but if you fundraise then you would not have to. Some people just do not have the people to buy the products we sell. We have a 50-50 split that partipate in the fundraiser but then the other half expects the others to carry them. this is why we ask each person to pay dues which is explained what that covers and then pay for awards and $5 entry fee to pinewood debies(which covers trophys and ribbons not to fatten the pack account). District always charges and that does not seem to be a problem.

 

I do want to say that we had a gift wrapping booth during the winter holidays to raise money for the B&G and we did very well. We had each scout able to bring 3 guest. Any one over that would have to pay for $5 per extra person. The ones that had a problem with this was the parents that did not bring their scouts to work at the booth. This seems like the norm.

[aquaticeagle]

After twenty years active in scouting, I say that it is not okay to charge scouts for their advancement materials unless absolutely necessary after dues and fundraising. A scout should not have to pay for the Wolf badge because it is an award as in, something awarded not bought. Now of course scouts are expected to pay for the patches from camping trips and such and that is usually figured into the trip cost but not for advancement. The pack I am talking about has not done fundraising and the CM has absolutely no experience in scouting...she was just the only one willing to do it.

 

What training covers the finances of running a unit?

[Eamonn]

No matter which way we look at it the money has to come from some-where.

What might work for you, might not work else where.

This by no means doesn't make you wrong or them wrong.

It is just a different way of getting the job done.

 

I am not that great a fund raiser.

My family is all across the big pond.

Both my In-laws were only children. (Father-In-Law is dead.)

Wife has one brother, who suffers from terminal poverty!

Given the choice to fund raise or write th check? I'll write the check any day of the week.

I don't see it as anything other than me paying for my kid participating in the program.

Does it really matter how the Pack gets the money? Just as long as it is there when it is needed?

Eamonn.

[ScoutNut]

OK, you have a Pack that has done no fundraising, yet you want the Pack to pay for all/most awards.

 

Where is the money for these awards supposed to come from? The Cubmasters personal bank account?

 

A Scout pays his own way. That is a guiding principal in BSA.

 

If the Pack charges a yearly Pack dues to cover these expenses, would that be better than charging per activity? The families are still paying.

 

How are you involved with the Pack?

 

[aquaticeagle]

I'm not involved with the pack in any way. My father is on the pack committee and since we've both been involved with scouts for a long time, he wanted my opinion on these things. I never said that it's okay for the pack to have done no fund raising. I simply said that they have not done any. My point is that if a pack does attempt to do fundraisers and still cannot cover costs, I can see reason for the scouts to each pay towards advancement materials. This pack has not attempted any fund raising so I don't think scouts should have to pay for the materials. The pack should be focusing on fund raising as a priority.

 

Again, I have no problem with scouts paying for activities if there is a cost involved. Paying for advancement and awards however takes away from the point of the award. The scout has done work to earn the rank or award, why should he have to pay for the recognition?

[nolesrule]

"This pack has not attempted any fund raising so I don't think scouts should have to pay for the materials."

 

The scouts ARE the pack. IF the pack wants to change how its expenses are paid for, that's up to the committee. First, they would have to make a decision to switch to annual/monthly dues (instead of pay-as-you-earn) or they would have to decide to use fundraisers. And if they decide on fundraisers, then someone would need to step up to the plate to develop and execute the fund raising plans within scouting guidelines.

 

Since your father is already on the pack committee and wants to institute fund raising, I would suggest he volunteer to step up and take on that project as part of his duties to the pack.

[hotdesk]

I would recommend that this Cubmaster read the Cub Scout Leader Handbook. It is a good guide considering recommendations from BSA to Cub Scout Packs.

 

I would also recommend that this leader take online Cub Scout Committee Fast Start and online Cubmaster Fast Start training. These are two courses that she could probably knock out in an hour.

 

 

[aquaticeagle]

"The scouts ARE the pack. IF the pack wants to change how its expenses are paid for, that's up to the committee."

 

My point is that the scouts are being punished for what the adults in the pack, mainly the CM, are failing to address.

[Basementdweller]

the entry fee could just be to cover the cost of the kit.

 

We pay for advancement and such out of dues with are $1 per week. The Den leaders have an envelop and attendance sheet that is turned in each week to the treasurer. We also popcorn, candy bars and various other misc fundraisers. We have treasurer report at each monthly committee meeting.

 

So when is the last time you have seen a treasurers report? with the current bank statement.

 

As for a Treasurers report. If they say no or cannot provide one then a call to your units commissioner is needed. Basically the Unit Commissioner can and will shut a Pack down if anything is out of order with the books.

 

Trust me been there done than. You can truly trust no one.

[Basementdweller]

Advancement should be free if the Pack is Healthy. Ours is.....

[scoutldr]

I've been out of Cubs for awhile, but I don't think things have changed much. First start with a trained Pack Committee. There should be an annual planning meeting. Then develop a Unit Budget (your Council has info on Unit BUdget Plans). Then sell Popcorn (or other fundraisers) to fund the annual program. When I was CM many moons ago, our Pack charged $20 annual dues which covered registration, Boys Life and insurance. All other expenses such as awards, PWS and B&G were covered by fundraising as a Unit. It's not rocket science.

[nolesrule]

"Basically the Unit Commissioner can and will shut a Pack down if anything is out of order with the books. "

 

Unit commissioners do no such thing. Our job is to help keep units on the right track, but we have no authority over the units we serve. While we can help mediate situations, issues regarding "the books" are between the treasurer, committee and the chartering organization.