crossing over

[normanebromleyjr]

I am Cubmaster of a pack in NY and we are having a great deal of trouble with the Troop in regards to the crossing over ceremony at the Blue and Gold. Traditionally what we have done is have all the webelos II cross over to the SM and SPL who are waiting with the epilates and scarfs. Well, not all boys stay on as boy scouts. They had fun as cubs but that's enough for them. The the troop is now threatening not to attend our blue and gold unless we only let the boys who have signed registration papers cross over the bridge.

 

They say they want more of an induction into Boy Scout theme to it. "It should be more special that they are moving on." I told them that we've been doing the same way for so long, how do you tell kids that have seen scouts cross that bridge for four years that they can't.

 

They don't seem to be budging. I also said that if they want to make it special, there are plenty of ceremonies for them to perform at the first meeting.

 

I am between a rock and a hard place because the webelos II den leaders and parents are not receptive at all to anything being done differently. They can't see how neglecting a scout the ceremony of crossing over can be considered a positive message from boy scouts.

 

Norman

 

[kbandit]

Just did a crossover ceremoney tonite and our troop does it for the scouts who are joining a Boy Scout troop. We welcome the new scout to the troop after he crosses over the bridge. Not sure what your pack thinks it symbolizes. What is the point of being welcomed to a troop when there is no interest to join in the first place. I can see where your Boy Scout troop is frustrated. Who is paying for the scarves and eplets? Troop, pack or parents? If it is the troop that is just wrong if there is no intenetion to join the troop.

 

My 2 cents

[Knight]

Maybe I don't understand, but it does not make any sense to me to have a Webelos "cross over" if he is not crossing over to Boy Scouts.

 

If this is the end of the line for some of the boys, you could have a "farewell" to those not crossing over and remind them that they will always be welcome to re-join the climb up the Eagle trail with the Boy Scouts. Maybe give them one green (red) shoulder loop and say there other one is always waiting for them in the Troop (BTW, epaulets are the button-down shoulder thingies on the shirt, the colored loop is not an epaulet).

 

P.S. - I'm not in favor or combining the B&G and the crossover. Too many things at once confuses and dilutes the messages.(This message has been edited by Knight)

[normanebromleyjr]

They think it symbolizes a graduation into Boy Scouts. The scouts have done all the requirements to become boy scouts and they don't want to discourage any undecided boys.

This is a tradition that I inherited and I understand fully that the crossing over is not the best ceremony for b&g.

 

But, I'm left with a mess that there is no time to fix. I do think the shoulder loop idea is a good one.

 

I wanted to have a seperate ceremony from the time this argument came up. But, the webelos parents won't budge because they've seen it done at the b&g for 4 years.

 

Maybe it's good so we can do it the right way next year.

 

Oh yeah, the pack is paying for the scarfs, loops and books.(This message has been edited by normanebromleyjr)

[gcan]

how about if you allow ALL the boys to cross over the bridge, and have the appropriate boys go to the troop, and then the boys not continuing on go to thier parents as a kind of "crossing over into 'manhood'" ceremony?

 

yes, i totally agree that the crossing over ceremony SHOULD only be for the boys who actually are, but at this point you just need to get thru this year without arguements and 'fix' the situation next year.

 

I would explain every meeting until the B-n-G what is going to happen- that the boys crossing over into boy scouts will go across the bridge first, then the rest. make sure they (and the parents, wherin most of your trouble lies) understand that they will NOT be greeted by the troop- that thier parents will have thier one epaulet waiting for them, ect.

 

And at your next comittee mtg start the wheels turning for changes to be made next year!

[ScoutNut]

Our Pack gives every Webelos their new loops and the Boy Scout Handbook. The Troop gives them their necker at their first COH

 

We have discussed only giving the Handbook to those boys who we knew for certain were going to go on into Boy Scouts. But, how do you know FOR SURE what a boy will do? In the end we decided that we had no real way to know who would stick to Boy Scouts and who would not. Some might fill out a transfer application, and then never show up at a Troop meeting. Others might decide later that they wanted to give it a try.

 

So, we decided the chance to get/keep a boy interested in Boy Scouts was worth the cost of the Handbook. Everyone crosses, and everyone receives a Handbook and shoulder loops.

 

 

[Buffalo Skipper]

I posted my remarks on the other topic, so I will not repeat them. However, rereading the post, I will edit my opinion on the matter slightly. Crossover is about joining Boy Scouts, but it is a Cub Scout (not Boy Scout) function. I do disagree with the SM on one significant point. If he is looking for an induction ceremony, that has no place at the Blue and Gold, as it is a Boy Scout activity. A great place for an induction ceremony is with the new scouts at the campfire on their first campout. If the troop wants the cub scouts to witness this (as a recruiting tool), it would be good to do this at a troop's Court of Honor; and invite the pack (or at least the remaining Webelos) to attend.

 

I saw a Scoutmaster who wanted to speak at the crossover and talk about "...the troop this" and "...the troop that." As the Cubmaster, I put my foot down, and said "No." We were doing an OA ceremony for crossover, and to have him speak would have interrupted the ceremony. I was simply inappropriate. He did as I asked.

[GKlose]

Buff, maybe it's the minority opinion and maybe it's not, but at a troop visit last year, I heard an SM say "the troop owns the crossover ceremony." I think his rationale is that once the pack awards AoL, the troop takes over. In fact, the troop did it at one of their functions and didn't attend B&G banquets in order to do it.

 

Again, maybe he's the minority opinion, but I think it goes to show there are different ways of viewing the process.

 

My younger son's pack invites all troops who are receiving crossovers to participate at the B&G. The CM then hands a script to the adult leaders of the troop and then expects them to follow that script (I'm not arguing that's a good idea either, it's just the way this particular pack does things).

 

Guy

[Stosh]

Maybe it's time for the CM and SM to sit down and hash out what the cross-over is supposed to be. Is it a Cub Scout exit program or a Boy Scout entrance program? Or both? The packs that I deal with split the program. The CM takes the Webelos scarf off the boy, hands it to the parent and says farewell to the boy on his scouting journey. The "change" occurs half-way across the bridge. Once he reaches the other side, he is welcomed by the troop he chooses, usually there are two to pick from. His third choice is to go back and sit with his parents and not join any troop. As he leaves the end of the bridge, the boy performs his first and maybe only leadership decision in Boy Scouts. "The opportunity is right there for you to choose, it's up to you."

 

The Boy Scout part of the program occurs only after the boy makes his choice and moves toward the troop of his choice, then either the SM or in our case PL/SPL takes over with the troop ritual of placing scarf on the boy, etc.

 

Stosh

 

 

[Buffalo Skipper]

********Warning Long Post Ahead********

As a former Cubmaster (and current Scoutmaster) I have some particular feelings about this. First, in our district, many (not all) packs invite the OA dance teams to handlea crossover ceremony. These are accepted as is and are a great ceremony (in my opinion).

We have always given the Webelos "free reign" to do what they want. The Webelos 1 dens are responsible for planning and organizing the B&G. They do so by consulting with the Webelos 2leaders and parentsto ensure their ideas are delivered. The CM has always "played along" with whatever script is presented to him. The AoL presentation and the following Crossover (always separate) are the highlight of the evening, and it has been universally agreed within the pack that this isthe Webelos 2's special night and the night that the rest of the cub scouts look forward to with awe and admiration. (Why can't allpack leaders and parentsplay this nicely?)

After the AoL ceremony, everyone sits down and there is a little slide show with photos of the boys since they were together in Tigers. It includes some of the other boys who have come and dropped out of the den, and finally addsphotos of the current boys in the den. It is generally set to music. this year we are looking at CSN's "Teach Your Children"; but if anyone has anyother suggestions, I will pass it along (hint,hint).

Following this, the OA begins the Crossover. The most stirring moment iswhen the cub scout stops in the middle of the bridge,turns aroundabout 150 degrees toface the cubmasterand gives him the cub scout salute, beforestepping off the bridge to the waitingtroop. As the boy approaches the troop, his neckerchief and tabs are removed, replaced by the troop regalia. Thecub's parents follow him across the bridge,symbolizing their leaving the pack forthe troop as well, but they step to the side while he is being tended by the troop. For the adults, there is rarely a dry eye in the place.

This is the crossover ceremony used by the lodge:

OA CEREMONY

For

Pack Crossover

 

CHARACTERS: Allowat Sakima, Kichkinet

Cubmaster, Scoutmaster OA Troop rep

 

MATERIALS: Podium, Bridge, Cassette player and Indian flute music

 

SETTING: Lights are off or partially dimmed

The Webelos and their families or representatives are seated together at the front of the room.

The Scoutmaster and any troop members are seated in the front on the other side of the room, where the Webelos will cross over.

A steady drum beat marks the entrance of the Chief and Kichkinet, measuring their footsteps to the drum beat.

As the Chief reaches the podium and raises his arms to gain attention, the drum beats 3 final LOUD beats.

 

 

CHIEF: I, Allowat Sakima, Chief of the Yustaga Lodge and my brother(s) have been called to this Council Meeting to consider the requests of these Webelos (chief points to the Webelos standing up front) who feel they have passed the tests that would allow them to join this Council in the Brotherhood of Scouting.

Will anyone speak for these Webelos?

 

 

CUBMASTER: I will speak for them.

 

 

CHIEF: Have these Webelos met the requirements?

 

CUBMASTER: Yes, they have. They have studied many things that would increase their skills in Physical Activities, Mental Abilities, Community Relations, Technology, and Outdoor Experiences so that they might become self-sufficient Scouts.

They have studied well to prepare themselves to join this Council. Webelos, please stand and recite with me the Scout Oath.

(Cubmaster leads the Scout Oath)

 

Please remain standing, and recite the Scout Law.

(Cubmaster leads the Scout Law)

 

(Cubmaster turns to Allowat Sakima and says)

They have proven themselves worthy to stand before the Council.

 

START THE FLUTE MUSIC

 

CHIEF: Brother Kichkinet, please bring these Webelos before this council as I call their names. They must cross over the bridge to the future, to mark their commitment to the Brotherhood of Scouting.

 

I ask that their parents or a representative follow them.

The Brotherhood of Scouting has many members, and we welcome the wisdom of our elders to our Council fires.

I ask that a representative of this Council to which they have applied, greet them as they arrive. Brother Kichkinet, please escort the Scoutmaster (and any troop members) to the foot of the bridge.

 

Kichkinet escorts the scoutmaster and any troop members to the receiving side of the bridge.

Kichkinet crosses the bridge and waits for the chief to callout the Webelos names.

 

CHIEF: Calls the names of the Webelos to crossover.

(Family members follow the Webelos)

 

KICKINET: (whispers to the Webelos to turn and face his Cubmaster and

salute using the Cub Scout salute)

 

CHIEF: Continues until all have crossed over.

(Holding arms up and outward for attention looks upward)

And now may the Great Spirit guide us and shine forth his light

upon us to show us our true path.

 

MUSIC STOPS Steady drum beat paces the chief and Kichkinet as they exit. (Not too slowly) Three loud quick drumbeats sound as they exit from sight and the lights are brought up

 

 

Following all this, the Webelos 1, now the oldest cub scouts in the pack, retire the flag and the B&G is concluded.

[normanebromleyjr]

That is one thing that the troop is lacking. The vision to have a well thought out and performed ceremony. It almost seems like they are putting pressure on me and my committee to make the b&g better for the boys as incoming boy scouts and it doesn't matter about the celebration of completing cub scouts.

 

I repeatedly told them that if they wanted a better induction or official cross over ceremony, go ahead. But all they want is for the pack to change the way we do b&g.

 

My next call will be to the scoutmaster to see if we can't work together. but i've talked with him and others before and they don't give cub scouts much credit.

 

this whole situation just eats me up, because a pack and troop should work together to train these kids in the scout way and keep them coming back. It starts in cub scouts and i take that part of being CM seriously. the troop does not.

 

norman

[gcnphkr]

I been on both sides of this now. We also have an OA Ceremony Team that does about a half dozen crossovers a year. The crossover is mostly a pack thing. Generally there will be a couple of difference troops represented. I've never understood the troop that are getting scouts that don't bother to come. That would seem to be a good indicator that they are not the troop to join.

 

On the other hand, I'm not sure it is proper to force the troop welcome the cubs that are not crossing over. I'll do this, but unless I know they are joining the troop I may not have a necker and loops to present them. It is awkward at best. With the pack providing these I'd be happy to do it--as long as it wasn't my troop's necker that was being presented.

 

In a perfect world the AOL and crossover would be two separate events. The scouts that earned the AOL would get it at that ceremony while only those actually crossing over into Boy Scouts would take part in the crossover.

[Buffalo Skipper]

Jet,

As I said, having the ceremonies on separate occasions, because I have never seen a boy earn the AOL and then not cross over to a troop. I've heard of it elsewhere (and I am sure it has happened locally), I've just never witnessed it.

 

 

[gcnphkr]

I've seen it more than I would have expected. Just about every combined ceremony I go to has one or two. Typically they are cubs who are into Little League or soccer.

 

I'm also never sure what to do with the parents. While I welcome them all, I only give the loops and necker to those that I know are going to be registered leaders. This causes some hurt feelings at times with parents who feel slighted if they don't get a necker.

 

I like the ceremony BTW, simple. It looks about the same as the one we do, although, IIRC, ours has lines for Nutiket and Meteu as well. Sometimes the dance team will also prepare the fire, but generally we only do that for district crossovers.

[Eagle92]

Buffalo Skipper,

Good Script! gotta add it to the database, just gotta replace that flute music with the DRUM

 

Jet,

 

I've never seen adults recognized for moving into Scout leader roles. Not saying it's wrong, just saying that's a new one for me.

 

everyone

 

Yep my chapter does a bunch of AOL/Crossover Ceremonies 9 times out of 10 those who receive the AOL do Crossover. However I've had a three instances to date where we had AOL recipients not move into BS.

 

I've also had the case where 1 or 2 Webelos were Crossing Over without AOL.

 

Unless all AOL recipients are also Crossing Over, it is one continuous ceremony. In those instance where that is not the case, We do the AOL ceremony first, and then have everyone sit down. once all seated, we do the crossover portion.