Atheist in the Pack

[TheScout]

Genesis 3:15 is a good start:

 

"I will put enmity between you and the woman, between your seed and her seed"

 

It is a prophecy. God promised to send a savior to mankind. That is the seed. Mary is the woman. She is also referred to as that in the Gospels. There is enmity or complete opposition of Mary to Satan - the Serpant.

 

There are other passages in the Bible as well. Such as the parts about the Annuciation.

 

It is a very old theory. Saint Severus in the 6th Century, who was the Bishop of Antioch wroet "She . . . formed part of the human race, and was of the same essence as we, although she was pure from all taint and immaculate."

 

 

[PACK15NISSAN]

Obviously the TheScout stand is doctrinal and not Biblical. The Bible does say that all have sinned, of course some Christian religions (I dare say all) over look the parts that either they personally don't agree with or that there doctrine doesn't agree with.

 

TheScout, if you have an scriptural basis for agruement, please do share and prove me wrong.

[TheScout]

I just did.

 

Also at the Annunciation, Saint Gabriel greets Mary with the words, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you." "Full of grave" is a translation of the Greek word kecharitomene which means completness or perfection.

 

Anyway, again, you focus too much on the Bible alone which you are not qualified to interpret. . .

[packsaddle]

"So how do you convince people of what the truth is?"

 

Father Reginald Foster, Senior Vatican Priest, "You don't, forget it, you just have to..you just have to live and die with their stupid ideas."

 

I really like Father Reginald.

[ScoutMomSD]

packsaddle - I agree.

 

almost all wars around the world, many of which are still going on, were started due to religious intolerance of other views.

 

Believe what you want, just dont try to convert me or my kids and dont preach to my kids unless you know I approve. Thats it. Have fun in the sandbox kids.

 

fun facts - did you know the Muslim faith is one of the fastest growing in the world. Also did you know they now allow soldiers to be buried and claim their faith as Wicca?

 

the world is moving and changing. if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem.

[TheScout]

"the world is moving and changing. if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem."

 

What does that mean? It could be changing for the worst. You offer no argument.

[eagle1977]

Seems a little funny to me that this thread has gone on for 9 pages and nearly a month now. The seeder of the thread, AlabamaDan has not been back to comment since 17 Feb. Guess he got what he needed and left us in the dirt.

 

Appears to me that faith is a personal thing and best left that way. There are way too many opinions and unfortunately way too many people die from disagreeing with one another.

 

Yet, I think that the best minds have difficulty wrapping themselves around the concept of faith. Even after reading Ren Descartes "Meditations on First Philosophy" I am still not sure that even he was able to prove faith. I am certainly not capable of discourse on the levels of a philosopher or a metaphysic so I will simply continue on my path in the wilderness and gaze in AWE and WONDER at the nature available all around me.

[packsaddle]

Yeah, it's a long way from wondering how best to condemn a boy who is experimenting with religous ideas. But I'm with you on that wilderness path, Eagle1977. And I agree with your opinion regarding Descartes.

Moreover, although it seems that in later pages on this thread, religious pedantics (???I think that's the term that was thrown out earlier???) are demonstrating for the umpteenth time how religion tends to bring us all together..NOT!!! I nevertheless would caution that faith may not the actual source of the disagreements or deaths that you mention. I think Bronowski had a good point - that these conflicts have their genesis when men believe they possess absolute knowledge...and even then it probably merely facilitates hateful tendencies. But those who do think they possess the absolute truth have a really convenient basis to reduce others to objects as well as to rationalize their elimination. I wish I could understand what IS the source of that sociopathy. I'm afraid we're going to have to live with it, probably forever.

 

[TheScout]

The purpose of religion isn't to bring people together.

[aquaticeagle]

"The purpose of religion isn't to bring people together."

 

History has certainly proven that. It has shown to do the exact opposite. Why anyone would subscribe to that is beyond me.

[Beavah]

Yah, TheScout, a tree is known by its fruit, eh?

 

Look at the reaction your dogmatic and strident approach is havin' in others. That's hardening hearts, not opening 'em. Turning people from God, not toward. We are accountable for such acts, and every word we speak.

 

Me personally, I think it's very hard to find many wars that were started or perpetuated solely for religious reasons. Far more often any claimed religious basis was a veneer coverin' the root causes which were economic and sociopolitical.

 

At the same time, it's very easy to find heroes amidst the darkness. From Schindler and Theresa of Calcutta to the quiet, generous folks who support most charitable works in the U.S. and overseas. And in overwhelming majority, indeed almost without exception, those quiet and courageous heroes believe in a Higher Power outside of themselves and greater than their nation or tribe or ethnicity. Yeh don't give up your wealth or lay down your life for somethin' unless yeh see it as an extension of yourself (family/tribe/nation) or as somethin' greater.

 

Let's not belittle those who respond to a higher call, eh? They're the world's heroes. Religious have started more schools and more hospitals and more charitable endeavors than any government. We still wear monks robes at university graduations in honor of their founding institutes of higher learning and preserving knowledge through the dark ages. TheScout's religion by itself is responsible for the care of nearly a third of the AIDS victims in Africa.

And on and on...

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[LsStuff]

Hi there

a few things to address

( ok i am admitting now i am a terrible speller but you will understand what i am trying to say)

When I first read this Post and saw a leader asking for help and the first response was "Sounds like you need to have a "Come to Jesus" meeting with this scouts parents" just really made me sad. There are way too many beliefs in this world to limit ourselfs to just one for scouting purposes.

 

 

ok the BSA policy on Religon is as Lord Baden Powel Taught us, 'while religon is an important part of scouting it should be left up th that scouts parents and the religous institution of there choice.'

 

Dont get me wrong I do follow Jesus but I also respect the rights of others to believe as they choose.

 

I work in 'comunity Units' where we strive to be non-denominational. There is a shaddow over scouts and it depends on where you live what shaddow it is, where a general belief has become that BSA has become synonomous with Church Scouts

 

Many of our Youth will miss out on Scouting and its benifits because of this.

 

As a Webelos Leader I ask my parents to do the God requirement with the scout. actually it is very easy to have them do this for many reasons, i tell them it is a good way to prompt a discussion on beliefs with the boy! under the options in the Webelos Handbook it gives you several ways to have discussion, and the scout only need to complete 2 of them, and the charecter connection .

one option is to discuss how your family religous beliefs fit in with the scout law? Most families i know will find a way to say that being trustworthy, loyal, kind ect is a good value to follow. another on eis to discuss with your religous leader ( parent) to do an act of service for somone else how did it make you feel.

There they have MET the requirements

 

Boys/ Youth are too young to make the decisions to be Athiest ect even if it is what the parents are teaching them. How many people grow up to go on to practice what they believe vs what the parents taught.

 

I truley wish the BSA would adopt the Polices that the scouts in England follow in regards to such issues. That we will include all boys in our program and not exclude them.

[gwd-scouter]

LsScout welcome to the forum. Jumped right into the fray with your first post didn't you?

 

You posted: "When I first read this Post and saw a leader asking for help and the first response was "Sounds like you need to have a "Come to Jesus" meeting with this scouts parents" just really made me sad. There are way too many beliefs in this world to limit ourselfs to just one for scouting purposes."

 

I agree completely. I usually stay out of these discussions, but I did want to add a perception I get when I read these kinds of initial posts. That perception is that the poster is not really looking for answers or advice, but backup for his/her decision to throw the presumed/avowed/whatever atheist out.

 

"We're about more than just camping and fun, it's about character." I couldn't agree more. However, character is built on so much more than a belief in God. Everything our boys do, whether in Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts, should be about building character.

 

 

 

 

[gwd-scouter]

One more thing LsScout - I believe GernBlansten's post about the come to Jesus meeting was meant to be sarcastic.

[GernBlansten]

My "Come to Jesus" statement, was done as a clever ploy to spur discussion. To me, a "Come to Jesus" meeting, is one where you have a heart to heart with another. You know, after Joe has his third fork lift accident, you have a "come to Jesus" meeting with him. Joe's forklift safety talk has nothing to do with religion. I think its appropriate to have such a discussion with the parents.

 

I also included a bit of sarcasm, one to jab the "BSA is a Christian organization" bee hive with a sharp stick. Most evangelicals I come across view anything opposed to their view of religion to be atheistic or worse. I was hoping to kill two birds with one stone.