Lisabob Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 OK this is really getting to be an "Issues and Politics" thread. Regarding the degree of evil in communism, I would only say this: What Lenin and Stalin and most his successors practiced in the Soviet Union was a form of totalitarian dictatorship. It barely even resembled what Marx and other "communists" were talking and writing about. Now, if one wanted to argue that totalitarian dictatorship is evil, perhaps one could get somewhere with that. But communism itself, is not what the world has seen or experienced, even in places that label themselves thus, and so claiming that it is "evil" is a bit misguided. Now back to the regularly scheduled debate about whether non-Christians are bad parents...(Sheesh - maybe folks should all go and call their state Child Protective Services and report all those horribly abusive parents who are raising their children in some other faith tradition than Christianity.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Lisa, hypothetically speaking of course, if you reported to some child protective agency that you knew of parents who are raising their children to eat human flesh and drink human blood on a frequent basis as part of a religious ritual, what do you think the reponse would be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GernBlansten Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I can't believe some of you are trusted with other peoples children. Really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novice_Cubmaster Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 A Jewish response PACK15NISSAN's comment: "so yes Jewish parents that don't teach there children about Jesus are bad parents. As are any other parents that mislead their children with false hopes of what will get them to heaven" From PACK15NISSAN's point of view, he's absolutely right. From my point of view, PACK15NISSAN believes in a false messiah and is a heretic. Quick, somebody hand me a stone! Religious tolerance is what lets us co-exist peacefully and civilly, without conceding that the other guy is right/I might be wrong/let's all sing Kum-bay-yah. So, I'm ok with PACK15NISSAN's stance. I'm a whole lot more comfortable with somebody who sticks by what they believe than someone who's so mushy that they may as well not believe in anything. Personal anecdote - raised RC from birth to mid-teens, it didn't take (not that the nuns didn't try); now a happy & committed Conservative Jew. So, I'm not so hung up on an "atheist" Cubscout at age 7-11 - he might end up being the Pope, the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Messiah. Let's give the little fella a chance. NC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSScout Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 It is the duty of every parent (and they fulfill this duty,whether they are aware of it or not) to school their children in what they feel is the best way to honor and worship God/higher power/universal spirits as they have perceived this method to be. Most of these methods are codified into "official" religions (or lack there of). It is then the children's duty (again, they fulfill this duty, whether they are aware of it or not) to either ACCEPT or REJECT that method. It will happen, either way. Christian parents will end up with athiest children or Bishops. Jewish parents will end up with Rabbis or Buddhists. Jehovah's Witnesses will end up with Quakers or Elders. Athiests beget Priests and nihilist philosophers. It happens. I do not know of a single religion that says (officially) "our faith may not be the best way to God". I can point to a couple that do allow as much as to say that one person's faith may not be the best for another, however. Each faith is demonstrably the "best " way to God. We can be proud of our progeny, or dissappointed, or disgusted or second guess ourselves. We DO ask our Scouts to "DO MY BEST" er that's "DO YOUR BEST" , etcetera... We do not ask them to DO IT or ELSE.Do we? If the Scout is asked to "do his BEST" when it comes to spiritual faith, can that be judged absolutely as one might judge a correctly tied square knot? I keep coming back to my experience at the 05 Jamboree as Chaplain. I met and signed off on the "Duty to God" rocker for at least ten Scouts who told me quote I'm not so sure about this God stuff unquote. If I extend that to the other 35 Chaplains who were doing the same thing, I estimate about 350 Scouts out of the 40,000 had the same,what, ideology? Not quite agnostic? Not quite athiest? In conversation with some of my fellow Chaplains, I did not come across any who would favor actively "outing" any of these Scouts. I still say that Scouting is a self selecting organization. If our standard is the Scout Promise and the Scout Law and assuming Irving doesn't try to adjust them ( the definitions for the Law have been changed thru the years), those that feel they cannot even ATTEMPT to meet those ideals will leave. "A Scout is Trustworthy" should be what we concentrate on. See James 5:12, perhaps. Course, now, you will find the occasional UnScout Scout. Swearing to tell the truth in court doesn't guarantee the truth will be told, either. Which leaves us, where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GernBlansten Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 "There are some ten thousand extant religious sects - each with its own cosmology, each with its own answer for the meaning of life and death. Most assert that the other 9,999 not only have it completely wrong but are instruments of evil, besides. None of the ten thousand has yet persuaded me to make the requisite leap of faith. In the absence of conviction, I've come to terms with the fact that uncertainty is an inescapable corollary of life. An abundance of mystery is simply a part of the essential inscrutability of existance, in any case, is surely preferable to its opposite: capitulating to the tyranny of intransigent belief." Jon Krakauer, Under the Banner of Heaven. Pretty much sums it up for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquaticeagle Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 "Yes Communism wasn't the only reason for mass murder throughout history. What does that prove?" - TheScout It proves that you don't know how to make an example that's relative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevorum Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 "I do not know of a single religion that says (officially) 'our faith may not be the best way to God.'" I've never met a single Unitarian Universalist who says "Our faith is the best way to God" or who claims that our faith has all the answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquaticeagle Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 "I've never met a single Unitarian Universalist who says "Our faith is the best way to God" or who claims that our faith has all the answers" That's why the BSA doesn't affiliate with UU anymore. Apparently the BSA doesn't like tolerance or open-mindedness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACK15NISSAN Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Novice_Cubmaster: Thank you for you response, finally some one who really understands what faith is all about. Faith is believing what you say you believe in not matter who it offends and what the consequences are. I appreciate and respect anyone who will stand by their believes admist the fire. To the many others who seem to want to comment on my beliefs and imply that I am not being tolerant. Not allowing me to make the comments I choose to make based upon my religious beliefs would make you intolerant of me. I do not push my beliefs off on anyone, including my children. I give them a christian education just as the school systems do, the best way that we can. What they do with the knowledge they are presented with defines free will. Yes, while they live under my roof they must go to church, do they have to believe, Absolutely not, but they do have to go. What is the point of believing something if you don't believe it is the right way and that your children would benefit from it. All this non-sense regarding educating your children with multiple religions and letting them choose the one that best fits them just shows that you obviously don't really believe your own beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanKroh Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Interesting backpeddle there, Pack15Nissan. "Thank you for you response, finally some one who really understands what faith is all about. Faith is believing what you say you believe in not matter who it offends and what the consequences are. I appreciate and respect anyone who will stand by their believes admist the fire." I always find it interesting when people judge whether someone who disagrees with them "really understands what faith is all about". "To the many others who seem to want to comment on my beliefs and imply that I am not being tolerant. Not allowing me to make the comments I choose to make based upon my religious beliefs would make you intolerant of me." Didn't see anyone who didn't allow you to make your comments. Personally, I did say that they also happened to be really, really offensive. But hey, that's ok, because you are going to stand by them under fire because you have *real* faith, right? Or maybe not so much, since you seem to be trying to ameliorate your comments now. Also, I've also never understood this need to say every little thing in one's head, and then try to defend the offensive parts by claiming "my religion made me say it". We have filters between our brains and our mouths (or fingers) for a reason. I don't care if your beliefs tell you that I'm the devil incarnate and that I'm going to hell along with everyone who has ever been associated with me. Frankly, I don't want to hear it, and I think that it is only good manners not to say it. But no one says you aren't allowed to believe it. "All this non-sense regarding educating your children with multiple religions and letting them choose the one that best fits them just shows that you obviously don't really believe your own beliefs." No, actually, I think that shows that I'm secure enough in my personal beliefs not to be threatened by the reality that there are other beliefs out there that my children are going to hear about. And I'd rather they get my best attempt to give them accurate information about those faiths than some of the interesting misinformation that is out there (and on here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Dan, Dan. How many times do I have to write it before it sinks in. The devil is a myth (and lots of other things, too). By any other name (Satan? Lucifer? the Pope?) it's all still myth. So please set your troubled mind at ease, secure in the knowledge that you could never be the Devil incarnate. (I might have to rethink this in the case of one of my old girlfriends, and her minister told her so as well! But she WAS fairly intriguing.) Besides, if there really were things such as devils and demons, etc. and one flapped down on his scaly wings and waddled into my office, I'd just tell him to kiss my bony butt. And you know I'd never say that to you. Edited to add: Trevorum, I agree with regard to UUs. It's so difficult to be smug when immersed in uncertainty.(This message has been edited by packsaddle) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanKroh Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Pack, you are the man, dude. The missus used to joke that that's why I tend to wear my hair on the long side; it hides my horns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutMomSD Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 "Comparing the program for a 7th grade Girl Scout to that of a 2nd grade Cub Scout, is like comparing apples to pineapples. Please do NOT do that. Would you compare the program for Daiseys to that of Cadette Girl Scouts?" I wasnt doing that - I was comparing the program for Brownies and Juniors for the weekend that my daughter helped CREATE to the programs for Cub scouts who are the same age. In fact I saw a number of girls who are in my son's class that my daughter was working with at the weekend. I was trying to compare philosophies of training young adults, the primary focus being Cadette age and retention vs Boy Scout age and retention. with regard to good or bad parenting, I have found its the kinds that have this pounded into them at a young age who are the most likely to rebel at a later age, say teens. Its funny when I started on these boards folks like packsaddle and beavah used to confound me - now I find them to be the shining voices of moderation and reason. Guess I'm back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I can't vouch for that toothy curmudgeon, but for me it helps to keep in mind that most of the time I have a twinkle in my eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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